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This thread has been locked |
Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2019 - 12:15pm PT
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Hi Forum,
I'd like to thank those of you who have helped us by taking the time to delete any copyright infringing photos you have uploaded. I know that takes time, and I very much appreciate you taking the time to review your uploads.
As many of you have suspected, we have been threatened with a potential copyright lawsuit, and while I'm not going to go into the particulars of that matter, I can tell you it is costing us considerably in time and legal fees, and has served as a wake up call for us to assure that SuperTopo has a rigorous copyright policy and that we take pro-active steps to avoid any copyright infringing images being hosted on our server.
We've seen hundreds of you take time to review your photos and delete any images that you don't own or have the rights to. Thank you! It is very important to us that there are no images on our servers that infringe on the copyrights of others.
Have You Checked Your Photo Uploads?
Some of you have not yet edited your photo uploads.
I'd like to ask those of you who have not yet carefully reviewed your photos to please do so in the next few days.
What Kinds of Photos Infringe on Copyrights?
Some people are not sure what kinds of photos infringe on other people's copyrights, so I wanted to provide a list of the most common kinds of infringing photos we've seen. This is not an exhaustive list, but is intended to help you know what kinds of photos are often copyright infringing:
 Memes - these are typically based on copyrighted photos and need to be removed. If you don't own or have the rights to the photo a meme is based on, please remove it.
Celebrities - photos of celebrities, actors, politicians, athletes, and other famous people are typically copyrighted photos and need to be removed
Pro Photographer Photos - photos taken by professional photographers are almost invariably copyrighted and need to be removed
Photoshop and Derivatives of Copyrighted Images - modifying a copyrighted photo in Photoshop, or taking a photo of a photo doesn't give you the right to use it
Scans of Copyrighted Magazines, Books, or Articles - we can't have any scans of climbing articles, guidebook pages, or any other scans of copyrighted printed material on our server. I know this kind of content has been interesting and may have real historical or educational value, but it is nonetheless copyright infringing and needs to be removed
Cartoons - cartoons are fun, but also copyrighted materials, and need to be removed.
TV and Movie Images - images from TV shows and movies are copyrighted content and need to be removed
Inappropriate Images - There is no justification for posting inappropriate images on SuperTopo, which is intended to be a friendly environment for climbers of all ages. If you have uploaded any inappropriate images, please remove them. If you see any on the site, please help us by using the feedback link at the footer of every page to let us know about inappropriate content so we can remove it
As a reminder, you are solely responsible for your photo uploads. We do not condone, nor will we accept financial liability, for any member who uploads images or content to SuperTopo that infringes on the copyrights of others.
We ask you to review any photos you have uploaded to SuperTopo, and immediately delete any photos you may have uploaded if you are not 100% sure you own the rights to the image.
Should we discover copyright infringing photos on your account, all your photos will be deleted and wiped from the server as a protective measure, and your account may be de-activated.
Thank you for your help with this very important effort.
Sincerely,
Chris McNamara
Founder
SuperTopo
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 19, 2019 - 12:27pm PT
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Jeez, Chris...I get the gist of what you need to do, but the upshot of this is so....boring.
What kinds of photos or images are acceptable?
If I take a picture of someone else and post it here, is it acceptable? I may have taken the picture myself, but the person in the picture hasn't provided their consent to use their image. What about images that have multiple people or crowds in the background?
It seems like pretty much any kind of product image or logo could infringe on this copyright issue. Isn't there some threshold where an image or graphic moves into a public realm, where copyright issues don't exist?
It's your website, and I tend to defer to the rationales that have been provided by you and RJ about why these restrictions need to upheld. But it sure is stripping away a huge part of the character of this place. Wasn't there any kind of softer approach to removing images (or how they are hotlinked) that could have been implemented?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 19, 2019 - 12:33pm PT
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Here's an example:
[snip - copyright infringing image deleted]
Is this not acceptable? Are the LA Dodgers really going to object to using an image that clearly promotes their branding?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 19, 2019 - 12:42pm PT
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we have been threatened with a potential copyright lawsuit I feel horrible for you guys. I've been there.
However, I think you too will share my "machismo" attitude towards these losers and their parasite lawyers when you make it to the other side of this - as the winner - which you will.
My #1 piece of advice - notify your insurance, whether personal or otherwise, and get their lawyers involved. In most states they are required by law to provide defense, even if the policy does not cover the loss. Think about that. They deal with this sh!t and the people who bring it all day long every day.
Do NOT pay for any this out of pocket. You will absolutely go broke. Your own lawyer, no matter how much you like them, they need to eat and they're all entitled, it's lawyer culture. Let the insurance company deal with that aspect and keep a lid on it.
And frankly - if this person is advising you to gut your site in some diminutive response to being bullied - they sound weak and I don't like them.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 19, 2019 - 12:43pm PT
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Mr. McNamara:
Have You Checked Your Photo Uploads?
Some of you have not yet edited your photo uploads.
Very hard to do when they have all been deleted.
I was about halfway through and had deleted a number of questionable images, when they suddenly were all deleted without any warning.
Furthermore, no one here has presented a compelling, or any for that matter, explanation concerning how the ownership of the images in question was assessed.
How about providing one?
Whilst you have your thinking cap on, you might also want to explain why ST allows the embedding of Youtube videos of questionable ownership via the
[Click to View YouTube Video]
syntax.
Edit
it used to say
{YouTube=xxxxxxxx} but with square brackets []
This change must have just been implemented today
Embedding was allowed yesterday
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Apr 19, 2019 - 12:56pm PT
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Historical images from more then a century ago that have not been copyrighted in modern times should be safe. If not, then that pretty much kills truly historical threads. Also, I understand using imagery or short excerpts for purely educational or critical purposes gives some leeway. Perhaps rj or Chris can elaborate.
Having to click links unfortunately sometimes takes one to images embedded in obnoxious advertising material. Photobucket, e.g. After a while you quit clicking.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Apr 19, 2019 - 12:58pm PT
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Chris/RJ - appreciate the explanations here and in the other related threads.
Turns out I had 1357 photos uploaded to ST over the years. Took about 30 minutes to go through and delete the 30 or so that I did not strictly own.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
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Apr 19, 2019 - 01:02pm PT
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Hope you guys weather the storm and the accusations are fairly addressed in the easiest way. Thanks for your clarifications.
Peace
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 19, 2019 - 01:03pm PT
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I hope this doesn't get him (her?) in trouble, but Marlow just posted another very interesting thread about an obscure historical person in climbing history. There is a photo of a line drawing of this historical person, followed by a Wiki excerpt.
Does this cross the threshold, too? Marlow's posts are incredibly unique and valuable, and add a dimension to climbing history that no-one else fulfills.
That line drawing must be at least 100 years old...and the Wiki description is....Wiki. How in the world can these be threatening to ST?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 19, 2019 - 01:27pm PT
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This latest missive from on high has some basis but is too restrictive. There should be some wiggle room between using photos of others that clearly should be their protected property and the following....
The above photo of me and friends from the NZ 1976 Torre Egger expedtition was taken at a party in Christchurch last year. I hadn’t seen these people in over forty years and someone honored our request to snap it. I don’t own the rights of the photo but I’m sure that whoever (I can’t remember who) complied with our request to shoot it would have no issues with it’s use.
If I can’t make simple judgements like that I am out of here as far as any photo input is concerned.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
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Apr 19, 2019 - 01:30pm PT
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But Jim....is it YOUR camera that it’s taken with. Good to see you’re back safe from Patagonia again. Thanks for releasing The Bird there!
Peace
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Apr 19, 2019 - 01:40pm PT
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Did you get a letter from Getty?
It seems like you should be able to claim DMCA safe harbor, but I am absolutely not a lawyer. Also, I'm not willing to hire one to figure out whether it's legal for me to post a photo here, so it's probably best that I stick to text.
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John M
climber
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Apr 19, 2019 - 01:40pm PT
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Done.. this is whats left.
[snip - infringing and inappropriate images removed]
Oh.. and I get an error message whenever I try to upload a new picture, so thats it for me.
.....
Edit: LOL.. well..That was quick. I have no pictures left.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 19, 2019 - 02:05pm PT
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But Jim....is it YOUR camera that it’s taken with.
Doesn’t matter. If you paint with Monet’s brushes it’s your Water Lillys, not his.
Better tag it Creative Commons with restrictions or it’s CMack’s
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Apr 19, 2019 - 02:11pm PT
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Posting this photo: A transgression to be punished?
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RJ Spurrier
SuperTopo staff member
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Apr 19, 2019 - 02:39pm PT
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Marlow:
Posting this photo: A transgression to be punished?
We aren't able to research the copyright history of that particular image or the more than 200,000 images uploaded on SuperTopo.
For an image like you posted above, we obviously don't know the history, and it is not practical for us to hire a team of people to try to research or chase down the legal copyright history of that specific image or any of the more than 200,000 individual images uploaded to the site.
We will remove images that are obviously copyright infringing (or that we believe to be infringing) as we become aware of them to reduce risk. As a result, no one should rely on SuperTopo as a repository for their photo library. That isn't a role the site is intended or able to serve.
Since you uploaded the image, I would assume you know if you own or have the rights to it. Our Terms of Service asks each member to assure that the images you upload to the site do not infringe on any copyright or other intellectual or property right of any party.
rj
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Apr 19, 2019 - 02:43pm PT
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Whatever you do, don't delete Marlow. Or you'll get this norski viking real pissed:)
Arne
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 19, 2019 - 03:00pm PT
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So mfm uploaded nearly one quarter of all the images on ST
Good work and stamina
I sure would like to meet the guru who judged all of his fotos
When he comes back on board maybe he can give an estimate of the number that he actually took with his very own camera
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RJ Spurrier
SuperTopo staff member
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Apr 19, 2019 - 03:10pm PT
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BJ:
You clearly didn’t bother to look at the photo referenced.
Yes, I did. It would be nice if you would have your facts together before making accusations.
That photo was uploaded by Marlow. Not by Donini. It was Marlow who put in Donini as the Photo credit. The photo credit typed in by Marlow doesn't clarify if Marlow had the rights to the photo, and thus the question of whether the upload meets the Terms of Service requirements is open.
If I upload a professional photographer's image that I don't have the rights to use, that is an infringement. I can't get around copyright infringement simply by noting their name in the photographer's credit. I'd need to somehow have obtained the right to use a photo that is the copyright property of someone else.
zBrown:
So mfm uploaded nearly one quarter of all the images on ST
Mouse from Merced had uploaded more than 46,000 photos on to SuperTopo, 6x more than anyone else ever has.
He recently posted an inappropriate photo, which led to a review of his photo uploads. We found he had uploaded thousands and thousands of what we believed to be copyright infringing photos as well as some inappropriate photos. Thus, as a practical matter, we felt we needed to take action and remove all of his photos to both protect him, and SuperTopo LLC, from liability risk. We simply don't feel we can stand by and ignore a pattern of repeated copyright infringement. If we found just one or two photos that we felt were infringing we would simply remove those. But repeated copyright infringement, or similarly a pattern of inappropriate photos, will leave us feeling that we cannot afford to hunt through hundreds (or thousands) or photos to try to surgically remove offending images. That is why Chris has stated clearly several times:
Should we discover copyright infringing photos on your account, all your photos will be deleted and wiped from the server as a protective measure, and your account may be de-activated.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 19, 2019 - 03:18pm PT
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Rj
Begs the question(s)
What if someone has the permissions/rights to use a professional's or amateur's photo and he uploads it to ST and does or does not put the pro/am creator in the "credit" line?
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