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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 31, 2018 - 06:59am PT
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I'll think of that the next time an out of control horse comes screaming down the trail.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 31, 2018 - 07:23am PT
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While I'm not anti-MTB, except in wilderness, I've yet to encounter a biker who yielded the right of way to anybody.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jan 31, 2018 - 09:28am PT
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LOL, yeah, out of control bikes in the wilderness. What a fantasy.
As far as right of way, I've never encountered a problem. I yield to hikers, and hikers yield to me depending on the circumstances. And we usually exchange pleasant greetings.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 31, 2018 - 09:59am PT
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Gary: On what trails have you seen this behavior? Any specific details you can share – circumstances, travel direction(s), actions? Any way to ID the rider (kit logo, bike, etc.)?
Mt. Wilson Trail, Upper Eaton Canyon, Pacific Crest Trail, Gabrielinio Trail and Tahoe Rim Trail spring to mind. They never yield on a trail, you have to get out of their way by stepping aside. They are nice about it, for the most part. It's not that big a deal, really.
LOL, yeah, out of control bikes in the wilderness. What a fantasy.
I guess I was hallucinating on the Tunnel Creek Trail at Lake Tahoe. The majority are cool, but it only takes a few blasting down the trail to raise your hackles. Especially since they don't even bother to give any sort of warning that they are about to blow by you. You don't even know which way to jump.
I hesitate to say because I've never seen it myself, but supposedly Santa Barbara is really bad for downhill crazies.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jan 31, 2018 - 10:25am PT
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Yeah, I bet a climber has knocked down rocks in the wilderness somewhere. Better ban climbers in the wilderness too.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 31, 2018 - 10:28am PT
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I ride. I pull ALWAYS over for hikers (>>> Gary<<<<). I don't skid,so I leave virtually no trace.
Good on you. My panties don't get twisted by bikers. There's all sorts of ways to enjoy the mountains and hills. It's only a couple of times I've seen inconsiderate riders that were real dickheads. Same with hikers.
But I still like the idea that there are just a few places I can take a hike and have things quiet.
Cheers.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jan 31, 2018 - 10:37am PT
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You will have those places, don't worry. But mtn bikers, have lots lots of trails to newly declared wilderness areas. This is the situation that needs remediation.
If the fixed anchor in the wilderness rules had gone the other way, climbers would be losing much access to the new wilderness areas as well.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Jan 31, 2018 - 10:40am PT
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But I still like the idea that there are just a few places I can take a hike and have things quiet.
I think few would be a better way to describe lees than the majority. Let's stick to logical statements, helps with honesty and whatnot.
I am of the 'place by place' kinda person. Also, it appears your 'encounters' are of the CA type and well, I feel for you on that one. It kinda comes with the entitled broitude of the region. I don't see it so much up here with the exception of Sun Valley and Jackson...correlation?
I also think the 'place by place' methodology should/could apply to other users. I think that if folks could find ways to get over themselves and their me-ness then we might have a happier lot, if'n ya know what I mean...
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jan 31, 2018 - 10:53am PT
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You can find bad behaviour in any user group. But it's a fantasy to try and extend that to the rest of the group.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 31, 2018 - 11:07am PT
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You can find bad behaviour in any user group.
You bet. Don't get me started on the current run of PCT "thru-hikers".
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 31, 2018 - 11:15am PT
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out of control horse
LOL, this isn't shrill at all.
The idea that bikes are going to cause more environmental erosion can only be supported by cherry picking. Yeah, 'some' bikers don't know how to ride, but then some hikers don't know to stay on the trail. The proof, again, is here:
https://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#7.00/-120.90000/38.36000/hot/run
Zoom in anywhere you want and click between hiker and biker traffic. Go to the mojave desert or wherever you think the land is more fragile and see who is sticking to the trails. Look at the actual FACTS
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 31, 2018 - 11:16am PT
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You bet. Don't get me started on the current run of PCT "thru-hikers".
Surely the scourge of the world. F*#king PCTers ought to be shot on sight. Cyclists poaching sections of the PCT in Oregon ought to be tortured along with their families.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Jan 31, 2018 - 11:31am PT
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I'm not going to BS that riders are universally great at hiker ROW. ... The gist I get is that, as usual, there is a minority that doesn't represent the larger group.
Ditto here. What I see has an analogy in climbing. Noobs who think it's all cool, run off and buy all the gear, but have no interest in learning any of that pesky etiquette stuff that ensures that all us users can get along.
I stop my bike completely for any hiker when the trail is anywhere near singletrack. If room enough, I slow to walking pace. I never pass without cordially engaging a hiker.
In general, I will slow when coming up on a hiker, ready to stop if needed, but nearly all of them politely step of the trail, I say "good morning" (or other assorted greeting), and "thank you" and continue on. Personally, I don't really agree with the the "rule" that bikes should yield to hikers. Even as a hiker, I think it's much more sensible/workable to simply step off the trail, let the bikes continue and go on my way. I would say, based on my experience, that most hikers actually agree with that. Impact is less for both.
I ALWAYS fully stop for horse riders well before we're face to face. Usually just long enough to let them go on by without spooking the horse, but sometimes they'll pull over and tell me to continue on by as well. As with all these situations, a friendly greeting and interaction goes a LONG way.
The one situation that annoys the hell out of me is the hiker who's plugged the earbuds in, cranked up the tunes and has shut out the world. I used to feel bad when I scared them (they don't see you coming up behind and can't hear a thing - and they almost universally freak out), but I've given up on that one. They bought their ticket. If they're going to get all wacky, that's out of my hands.
I actually got a bell when I bought my last bike. I'm sort of reluctant to use it (seems sort of demanding to me), other than as a warning for tight situations where I don't want to get into a head-on with another biker, but a while back I had to do a ride on my old bike (no bell) and actually had a lady hiker tell me to "Get a bell!" Ha ha ha ha.
Edit to add: I think mountain biker riders who skid down trails (either in the corners, or heavy braking when they get scared) should be caned on public television.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Jan 31, 2018 - 11:40am PT
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You will have those places, don't worry. But mtn bikers, have lots [lost] lots of trails to newly declared wilderness areas.
This, is perhaps the most crucial fact that has caused an unfortunate rift between many Mtb riders and Wilderness advocates. Some proposals to protect areas with Wilderness designation have caused opposition in the biking community as a result.
Allowing biking on a case by case basis is a step in the right direction of sensibly resolving this and allying groups that want to see open space preserved. But, as with most things, common sense gets sidelined to emotional response.
There are lots of bad actors, whether on two feet or two wheels - don't get me started. But, it is a truism that the farther from the pavement you get, the fewer users, fewer users exhibiting poor behavior, and fewer noticeable impacts.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 31, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
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I ALWAYS fully stop for horse riders well before we're face to face. Usually just long enough to let them go on by without spooking the horse
In one of the few times I came across a horse, it was the rider who freaked out (literally screamed).
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jan 31, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
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Problems in a high density use area like the San Gabriel mountains should not be used as an indicator of what happens in a real wilderness designated area not close to a dense population.
Which goes back to the obvious, let the managers decide based on the local situation.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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You guys are considerate riders, like most hikers are considerate hikers. A lot of this conflict talk is blown out of proportion. Although I do get ticked off when I see them poaching the PCT.
We'll just have to agree to disagree about bikes in wilderness.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Although I do get ticked off when I see them poaching the PCT.
Why
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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I ALWAYS fully stop for horse riders well before we're face to face. Usually just long enough to let them go on by without spooking the horse
In one of the few times I came across a horse, it was the rider who freaked out (literally screamed).
I've been running into them pretty often lately, and (even going back lots of years), I usually have pretty decent encounters with them. As I said, I always stop to see what they expect and let them direct things so as not to freak the horse.
The one time things didn't go so well was a sort of sketchy lady who told me I could go on by, then proceeded to walk her horse (or she may have just not been in control of it) right into my path. It didn't escalate to yelling or anything, but for some reason she seemed to feel I had done something wrong. I disagreed. :-)
edit to add: in Arizona, the horse riders have a pretty long history and hefty lobby, so it's much better if their encounters with mtb-ers do not get confrontational or we might lose access.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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The Pro Tip is to go out during the week - and stay home on weekends.
I see so few other trail users on weekdays that we usually stop and chit-chat when we cross paths.
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