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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 14, 2017 - 07:41am PT
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Apparently feminists think you are guilty until proven innocent and even then you are still probably guilty....
Ellen Pao LOST her case in court...
it's amazing how that fact is ignored
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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 14, 2017 - 09:24am PT
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anecdotal evidence suggest that harassment is particularly pervasive in low-wage occupations such as restaurants and retail, industries like farming in which workers are isolated, and male-dominated fields like construction.
ed- You are using anecdotal evidence as the basis for your argument. Just like climate change deniers....
While I don't disagree with the hypothesis it would be better to highlight factual instances of sexual harassment rather than using anecdotal evidence
Though I am still not sure what point if any you are trying to make here...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 14, 2017 - 09:35am PT
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Alpinist 58
p64 Paradigm Shift
Caroline Treadway
"...To some, Hill's achievement [the free Nose] signaled that the gender gap in climbing had closed. Other benchmark moments followed, marking women's rise in all genres of the pursuit, as Charlotte Austin points out in Alpinist 52. In 2005 Ines Papert placed first over all in the difficulty category of the Ourey Ice Festival competition. In 2008 Beth Roden became the first person to complete Meltdown, a thin 5.14c crack believed to be the most difficult single-pitch trad climb in Yosemite. In 2009 Kei Taniguchi was the first female mountaineer to receive the Piolet d'Or, for the first ascent of the icy northeast pillar of Cerro Riso Patrón, a rime-crusted peak deep within Southern Patagonian fjords. Meanwhile Sílvia Vidal had forged hard aid routes in the intense solitude of alpine big walls. In bouldering and sport climbing, Ashima Shiraishi and Margo Hayes have continued to prove that women can accomplish some of the most challenging problems in the world..."
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 14, 2017 - 09:37am PT
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http://web.mit.edu/fnl/women/women.html
President Charles M. Vest: I commend this study of Women Faculty in Science to all of my faculty colleagues. Please read it, contemplate its messages and information, and act upon it personally and collectively.
I learned two particularly important lessons from this report and from discussions while it was being crafted. First, I have always believed that contemporary gender discrimination within universities is part reality and part perception. True, but I now understand that reality is by far the greater part of the balance. Second, I, like most of my male colleagues, believe that we are highly supportive of our junior women faculty members. This also is true. They generally are content and well supported in many, though not all dimensions. However, I sat bolt upright in my chair when a senior woman, who has felt unfairly treated for some time, said "I also felt very positive when I was young."
We can take pride in the candor of dialog that these women have brought to this issue and in the progress that we have made, but much remains to be done. Our remarkably diverse student body must be matched by an equally diverse faculty. Through our institutional commitment and policies we must redouble our efforts to make this a reality.'
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jul 14, 2017 - 12:42pm PT
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Over the last sixty years I've watched the world of gymnastics change considerably in the public eye. In the 1950s men's competitions were paramount, with women's running a weak second.
Now, of course, the situation is the reverse, with female gymnasts achieving the status of pop stars with accolades from all quarters, their performances far more impressive than they were back then.
There will come a time when the genders will compete on the same apparatus, and quite possibly the women will prevail. The horizontal bar comes to mind.
Men, from the perspective of sports history, prepare yourselves for an inevitability in climbing!
(oh, and remember what Jim said: If you use your feet you are climbing like a girl.)
;>)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 14, 2017 - 01:06pm PT
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Gonna be a while before the rings are added to the calendar methinks.
Hey, let's talk about women in the military! Specifically, front line
ground pounders. They've had to drastically reduce the physical nature
of boot camp so as not to get Congressional knickers in a bunch. Yes,
women have good endurance but not many have the shear strength required
for many emergencies. Granted, not a lot of guys do either, but more so.
I'm thinking SEAL teams will remain a male bastion for a long long time.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 14, 2017 - 01:29pm PT
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Then she called me a misogynist, and told me she was done talking to me
so you start to get an idea how sexual selection works...
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jul 14, 2017 - 01:55pm PT
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Why not get a divorce? Being free is so much better than marriage
The lady is desperate to turn this thread into a dating venue. Send her a PM and maybe she'll relax.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Jul 14, 2017 - 02:08pm PT
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I think Ed and The Warbler both have some good points. There is a reason that "feminism" is on a rapid decline (numbers wise) in the states. What's sad is how much of the media continues to take well-meaning and even societally/scientifically proven arguments and turn them into "Sexist" or "racist" issues. So many issues are painted as equality or "in-equality" issues when they truly aren't. Men and women were not created equal. Nor is all of mankind created equal. That's ridiculous. And to strive for "eaquality" or "fairness" on all levels so sets one up for disappointment and general unhappiness in my opinion.
I believe we are all created equal in God's eyes and should treat each other with equal measures of decency, without malice or preconceived notion. That's the quality I strive for and hope to impart to my children.
My daughter is a Division I athlete and is definitely not as strong as men. She knows that and would find it ridiculous to be offended by anybody who insinuated that she isn't. She's just not as good as the mail swimmers. That's no big deal. Typically it's people who don't have much experience with these kind of things that have the most conviction or are the loudest complainers. I find that strange.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 14, 2017 - 02:10pm PT
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There is a reason that feminism is on a rapid decline in numbers in the states.
where is this factoid gleaned from?
feminism is in a rapid decline in Afghanistan, too, are you suggesting that the reasons might be the same?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 14, 2017 - 02:13pm PT
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Seems like Sycorax can't decide whether to be Lago, Fallstaff or Prospero.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 14, 2017 - 02:19pm PT
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I'm suggesting that over a long time with many such encounters, that certain behaviors would likely be greatly attenuated in the human population.
The article on domestication that I posted on another thread points to the fact that humans are much less aggressive than their close ape relatives, which is a sign of domestication...
see this post
Isn't this what you fear, Warbler, that you would be domesticated? that climbing would be "domesticated?"
You're a bit late in your worries... there is no inner "wild type" to channel anymore. The gals decided it "wasn't worth it."
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Jul 14, 2017 - 02:23pm PT
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Ed the numbers are in regards to the feminist movement and number of women who identify themselves as "Feminist" or align themselves with a true feminist philosophy as compared to the movement's origins and the past 25 years in America. Lots of stats out there.
Phone battery dying by the way! Gotta run. Maybe I'll check in on this thread in a couple days.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 14, 2017 - 02:28pm PT
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oh, found one,
'...asked if they believe that “men and women should be social, political, and economic equals,” 82 percent of the survey respondents said they did, and just 9 percent said they did not. Equal percentages of men and women said they agreed with that statement, along with 87 percent of Democrats, 81 percent of independents and 76 percent of Republicans.'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/feminism-poll_n_3094917.html
but wait, there's more!
'Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines feminism as “the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.”'
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 14, 2017 - 03:37pm PT
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Most people, even on this forum, are well aquainted with, and know the meaning of, misogyny. Few can tell you what misandry means...there are very good reasons for that state of affairs.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2017 - 04:10pm PT
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Global conspiracy
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 14, 2017 - 04:24pm PT
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Micronut i think that "decline" in self-identified feminists is because many of the equal rights battles have been fought and won by other hardcore feminists-so, there is not as much need, because other women have done the work for you already. At least that's what my wife tells me.
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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 14, 2017 - 04:31pm PT
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Ellen Pao was treated equally- and yet feminists still complained- what gives ed?
Also- please explain how the patriarchy is holding women back in all regards including
climbing...
And do you really think people who oppose the vindictive third wave feminist rhetoric want women to be treated un equally?
Personally I oppose it because I had to deal with multiple teachers who were seriously biased towards males. It turned academics into an us vs them situation. I hated school partially because of this treatment. The one female teacher who truely was a feminist in regards to treating everyone equally was awesome. i still have fond memories of her and seriously respect her wisdom looking back. The teacher who ranted about her ex and about how all men were evil- not so much... I am biased for sure- it's why I speak out
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Jul 14, 2017 - 04:32pm PT
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I think that's a good point David.
When feminism becomes man heating and mis-guided martyrdom then it doesn't help anybody. Let us not confuse the hard-core feminist with those of us who believe in treating all people as you would have yourself treated and hoping the best for them. I'm back to 1% battery on my phone so I'm not gonna stay long. Got to go root for my daughter at The LA Invite at USC's pool. Wish her luck. It won't be long before men are competing in the women's 100 m freestyle. It's only fair you know. They should be able to identify however they want.
Gotta run.
Scott
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