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philo
climber
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Then be sure to avow that nothing can change for the better.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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yer baby killin buddies just bombed a Doctors with out Borders hospital in Kunduz killing over 20 including at least 12 doctors. The GPS coordinates of the hospital were well known by the U.S. Forces. Where is your outrage at this Fukup/war crime!
Philo report also mentions that Taliban were infesting that hospital..
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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From another thread:
Life is too short to be an as#@&%e & to be angry all the time.
What benefit does one get from being a dick to others? Do you sit there and pat yourself on the back because you upset someone? Do you win a special prize from the as#@&%e committee? I used to do it because my life was empty and I was miserable. I felt better about myself for putting others down. F*#ked up, eh?
I guess I still do it from time to time, like poking fun or making snarky comments, but it's not as bad as it used to be like 10 + years ago.
I also acknowledge when I am being an ass and if I am out of line, I have enough sense to apologize.
For the most part, I feel really sorry for these types. You know there's something wrong or missing in their life if they get off on being losers.
I hope they find what is missing one day...
Thanks Anita
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philo
climber
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Fair enough. I changed the pic to a less gruesome one from the aftermath of the hospital bombing in Kunduz. No reason people should see what's really happening in Palestine, right.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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i'd like to think that Chief is writing from an underground bunker, eating canned tuna and peeeing in a bottle.
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philo
climber
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From Rolling Stone.
Another day, another horrible mass shooting. This one was in the small town of Roseburg, Oregon, on the Umpqua Community College campus. More than two dozen people were reportedly hit with gunfire.
SIDEBAR
Oregon School Shooting Oregon Tragedy 264th Mass Shooting of the Year »
While victims are being rushed to the hospital, many right-wing pundits and politicians are no doubt readying their talking points to explain why the 264th mass shooting of the year does not mean the United States should tighten up access to deadly firearms.
Well, guys, I hate to break it to you, but we heard you the first time. And the second time. And the hundreds of times since that our country has grappled with an individual eager to take out as many lives as possible with a firearm. We can recite your arguments in our sleep, and they haven't grown better through repetition.
1. "Guns don't kill people. People kill people."
This is a fantastic argument for those who can't tell the difference between one death and a dozen. Absolutely, a murderer can often kill one person or two with a knife before being stopped. But to really rack up those mind-blowing death counts – to make sure that many lives are destroyed and families ruined in the space of five or 10 minutes – you need a gun. If all you care about is apportioning blame and declaring that someone does or does not have murderous intent, then by all means, claim a knife and a gun are equivalent weapons. For those of us who are more worried about preventing unnecessary deaths than merely acknowledging the hate that resides in some people's hearts, however, the sheer amount of damage a gun can do is reason to limit who can get their hands on one.
2. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
If you prefer pithy sayings to hard evidence, I can see why this would be convincing. But if you look at the real world, you'll find that far from being our only hope, good guys with guns are barely any help at all. No mass shootings in the past 30 years have been stopped by an armed civilian; in 1982, an armed civilian successfully killed a shooter, but it was only after he committed his crime.
It's not that there aren't enough guns, either. There are as many guns as people in this country, and fully a third of people are armed. Even when shootings happen in gun-happy places, where armed people are sure to be nearby, this vigilante scenario simply doesn't work. That's because pulling a gun out and shooting back in the chaos of a mass shooting just makes things worse, as was discovered when a would-be hero at the 2011 shooting of Gabby Giffords very nearly shot the wrong man. (The actual shooter was tackled by an elderly man.)
3. "But, mental health!"
Opponents of gun control love bringing up the problem of inadequate mental health care after a shooting. This is strictly for deflection purposes, as there is no indication that Republicans will ever work on meaningful reform for our mental health systems – which, it's true are woefully inadequate. It's an issue that only matters to them in the immediate aftermath of a shooting – then it's forgotten, until there's another shooting. Rinse, repeat.
Also, the "mental health" gambit, in this context, is always vague. What exactly is the plan? Round up everyone with a mental health issue and put them under lock and key? That amounts to 1 in 5 Americans, the vast majority of whom have no violent tendencies. Will we have some kind of extensive mental health registry? A lot of Americans who struggle with mental health are undiagnosed, though, and putting them on a government list that restricts their rights is not a great inducement to get a diagnosis. There are a lot of shooters in this country, so we have some pretty good data on mass shooters. And that data shows there's no reliable way to tell who is going to go off like this, and only 23 percent of shooters have a diagnosis. Even if all of those individuals got gold-star treatment, the system would only stop a few shooters.
4. "Second Amendment, baby."
Here's a good time to remind everyone that the Second Amendment was written by slaveholders before we had electricity, much less the kind of weaponry that would-be murderers can buy today. But sure, if you think it's that precious, we can compromise: If you love the Second Amendment that much, feel free to live in a powdered wig and sh#t in a chamberpot while trying to survive off what you can kill with an 18th century musket. In exchange, let those of us living in this century pass some laws so we can feel safe going to class, or the movies, or anywhere without worrying that some maladjusted man will try to get his revenge by raining death on random strangers.
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/4-pro-gun-arguments-were-sick-of-hearing-20151001#ixzz3nnmhO0pS
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
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philo
climber
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Very good post Glillegard.
The reason that mass shootings and school shootings get the coverage that daily gang shootings don't is, in my opinion, because the average American doesn't spend time in inner city crime zones but they do send their kids to schools, shopping malls and movie theaters.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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"Cartridges are only reliable for maybe 10-20 years."
You sure about that?
A lot of the surplus stuff we shoot is older than my parents. And so are the guns.
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philo
climber
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OR Teacher Where Massacre Occurred Writes Lawmakers: “Our Rights to Live Without Fear of Slaughter Not Important to You”
— October 3, 2015
Melissa Duclos, a teacher from Oregon, penned an open letter lamenting how upon starting her position as a teacher, she wasn’t properly trained in the school’s emergency procedures in the event of a shooting. She closes the letter by calling upon lawmakers to stop being afraid of the pro-gun lobby and act.
Duclos explains that more guns isn’t the answer and expresses fear that lawmakers won’t care or act if her, or another person’s, child is killed in a similar tragedy that struck Umpqua Community College.
Here’s the letter in full:
Thursday, October 1 was my second day of class as a writing instructor at a community college in Oregon.
Following the shooting that occurred at Umpqua Community College on Thursday, where 10 people were killed, I realized that as a new hire, I hadn’t been fully informed on my college’s emergency protocols. What should I do in the event of what we now call, with heartbreaking regularity, an active shooter situation? According to my school’s Emergency Response Guide, I should attempt to evacuate my students if it is deemed safe to do so. My classroom is on the third floor; to evacuate we would need to descend two flights down an open staircase, and exit through a wide lobby. We would need to know with absolute certainty that the active shooter was not on the third floor, or the second, or anywhere in the lobby. In other words, evacuation, my first course of action, seems highly unlikely.
The next option, according to my college, is to lock the door. This unfortunately is not possible, as the door to my classroom can only be locked with a key, a key that I do not have and won’t ever be given. Left, then, in my third-floor classroom with its unlocked door, I am instructed to turn off the lights and lower the blinds, to use the tables to build a barricade, and get everyone out of the line of fire. I am further instructed to “arm [myself] with classroom items (e.g., stapler, chair, fire extinguisher) to fight back with in the event that the shooter attempts to enter [my] room.”
In the next paragraph, I am told what to do if that shooter does in fact enter our classroom: “There is no one procedure that can be recommended in this situation,” the manual informs me with grim honesty, before adding, “f you must fight, fight to win and survive.”
Fight to survive. I am a teacher, with a master’s degree in creative writing, and this is part of my job.
These security measures — generic, unfollowable, completely incompatible with the reality of my school — are, in their inadequate way, essential. It is not the school’s fault that heavily armed people, whether through incurable rage or mental instability, all too frequently choose academic institutions as the settings for the horror they unleash. I recognize that we do not have the resources to retrofit our facilities with safer features. I am positive that handing me — or any teacher — a gun will solve nothing. Regardless of the level of preparedness, though, it is clear that schools and teachers are being asked to do a job that they are not meant to do.
My son will start kindergarten next year. At 5 years old he and his classmates, in addition to learning reading and math, will be walked through lockdown drills by a teacher who will likely be hiding an immense terror as she has students practice finding a cozy place to hide and times how long they can remain quiet. It will probably seem like a game to him at first, but eventually my son and the rest of America’s schoolchildren who are learning the same lessons will ask why. Why have we allowed our schools to become a place where children must hide, and teachers must fight to survive?
What do you recommend I tell him? This week, when I speak to my students about what happened at Umpqua and about our own emergency procedures, what do you advise I say after I explain that the stapler and whiteboard markers — the only classroom supplies I have in my room — are critical to our survival?
I could tell them that your thoughts and prayers are with us. I could tell them we have your deepest sympathies. But I am teaching a class on argument, instructing my students on the importance of facts. So instead I will tell them the truth: They have to be prepared to hide out of the line of fire, and to fight for our survival, because you, our lawmakers, haven’t done your jobs. I will tell them that their rights, my rights, the rights of my 5-year-old, to attend school without fear of facing senseless slaughter by machine-gun fire, are not important to you, that we must be prepared to fight tooth and nail, stapler and whiteboard marker, because you refuse to fight the gun lobby in this country.
The next time you have an opportunity to sponsor or vote on common-sense gun legislation, instead of fearing the attack ads the gun lobby will undoubtedly launch against you, the lost campaign revenue, or the threat to your job, I hope that you think of me and my students, of the rest of the educators and students across the country, who have been asked to stand up to gunmen because you are too scared to stand up to a handful of lobbyists.
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philo
climber
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Kroger the only horse that is dead is the current insane misinterpretation of the 2nd Ammendment and the only ones beating it are the ammosexuals.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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the Supreme Court has upheld the individual right to bear arms
True, but they also didn't rule against gun control laws.
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Norton
Social climber
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True, but they also didn't rule against gun control laws.
actually, the recent Heller Supreme Court Decision did rule against a gun control law
when it decided that the city of DC could not pass and enforce their law outlawing
lawful citizens from owning a gun
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held in a 5-4 decision that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution applies to federal enclaves and protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. The decision did not address the question of whether the Second Amendment extends beyond federal enclaves to the states,[1] which was addressed later by McDonald v. Chicago (2010). It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.[2]
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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In 1939 the U.S. Supreme Court considered the matter in United States v. Miller. 307 U.S. 174. The Court adopted a collective rights approach in this case, determining that Congress could regulate a sawed-off shotgun that had moved in interstate commerce under the National Firearms Act of 1934 because the evidence did not suggest that the shotgun "has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated milita . . . ." The Court then explained that the Framers included the Second Amendment to ensure the effectiveness of the military.
Recent case law since Heller suggests that courts are willing to, for example, uphold
regulations which ban weapons on government property. US v Dorosan, 350 Fed. Appx. 874 (5th Cir. 2009) (upholding defendant’s conviction for bringing a handgun onto post office property);
regulations which ban the illegal possession of a handgun as a juvenile, convicted felon. US v Rene, 583 F.3d 8 (1st Cir. 2009) (holding that the Juvenile Delinquency Act ban of juvenile possession of handguns did not violate the Second Amendment);
regulations which require a permit to carry concealed weapon. Kachalsky v County of Westchester, 701 F.3d 81 (2nd Cir. 2012) (holding that a New York law preventing individuals from obtaining a license to possess a concealed firearm in public for general purposes unless the individual showed proper cause did not violate the Second Amendment.)
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zBrown
Ice climber
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An argument between two children over puppies turned tragic Saturday when an 11-year-old boy killed his 8-year-old neighbor with a shotgun, according to authorities in Jefferson County, Tenn.
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Each of the children had a puppy, the sheriff said. The 11-year-old “wanted to see the 8-year-old’s, and she said no, and then he went and retrieved a gun,” McCoig said.
The boy fired the 12-gauge shotgun from inside of his house, striking the girl as she stood in her yard, according to the sheriff. The gun, which was stored in a closet without locks, belonged to the boy’s father, McCoig said.
When the offended neighbor sues the offending neighbor for wrongful death the offender's insurance, if he has any, isn't going to help him.
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philo
climber
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There is your sick and twisted gun culture in action. It's so pervasive that even kids think guns are the first choice in solving problems.
Great job Ammosexual, 2nd Ammendmeny misinterpreting bullet brained ameriKKKans.
Hey hey hey NRA how many kids did you kill today
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Hey hey hey NRA how many kids did you kill today
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philo
climber
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No sorry it's the tw#ts who say the solution to too many guns is more guns that need f*#king help.
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