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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 20, 2015 - 12:09pm PT
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"...democrat or republican, there is no difference anymore. "
Disagree. There's a difference, when it comes to social or environmental issues (and to some degree, military/defense).
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Apr 20, 2015 - 12:15pm PT
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There is a difference to the degree that wealthy interests are not all the same. But you deceive yourself if you think any of them work for the people when it goes against the interest of their donors.
We have to force the congress and any president to work first for the people... to do that requires that ONLY the people elect them and give them their jobs.
That is far from the current situation.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 20, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
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"...democrat or republican, there is no difference anymore. "
Studly, do the words "Sotomayor" or "Kagan" have any special meaning to you?
If McCain or Romney were elected in place of Obama, what names might we be reading here instead?
PS. Folks, please keep the name calling out of this thread--it might last if we keep it civil.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 20, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
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"But you deceive yourself if you think any of them work for the people when it goes against the interest of their donors."
That's pretty much speaking the politically obvious, given that this is Politics 101. For practical purposes, though, do you think there was a chance in holy hell that the GOP would take on healthcare reform...or push an equality agenda for women and gays?
Not a feckin' chance. These issues make a daily difference to friends & family, no matter where the campaign $$ came from.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 20, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
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Man, TGT is really pulling out all the stops in his Anti-Hillary bullsh#t. He must be worried...
"Takes one to know one. "
Stay classy, TGT!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 20, 2015 - 01:07pm PT
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I didn't call anyone stupid, but I get called that all the time.
I said you have to be stupid to think certain things. Stupid things.
Yes, the more you know about politics, the more people that know Nothing (they don't want to know) about politics will call you stupid, since my knowledge of politics is way over their head, that's what happens when you get mired in the right wing media driven political knowledge base, you call them all the same, and everyone is stupid who disagrees.
These are some of the issues that the Republicans and Democrats are diametrically opposed;
Abortion
Gay Rights
education spending
campaign finance
fixing the economy
raising wages
making health care affordable
creating jobs
keeping jobs in the US
wealth inequality
protecting our environment
protecting our rights as people
equal rights
and 1000 more issues, all protecting humans as opposed to protecting the rich and their interests
The Republican are opposed to anything liberal, or anything that puts the slightest inconvenience from the rich getting richer.
You are not very aware of what's going if you call the parties 'all the same', since they are in fact diametrically opposed. They fight tooth and nail to deny us affordable healthcare, or raising wages, raising the taxes on the rich, exposing the donations to the Big Dark money that flows into the Republican coffers.
How is that the SAME???
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 20, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
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+1 for the above
There is a difference between parties in those regards.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Apr 20, 2015 - 01:14pm PT
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Its the same because its all an illusion. In the history of our nation, our parties and represenatives used to work togather for the people and of the people. But no longer. Now they take a stance based on what their "contributors" tell them to do, and its all orchestrated to keep us separated and apart, agreeing on nothing. Divide and conquer, remember that saying? Its happened. Goldman Sachs picks the presidential candidates, and tells us we have a choice between them. You really think you have a choice? or if you do that it makes any difference in the final outcome?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 20, 2015 - 01:18pm PT
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climbski2
There is a difference to the degree that wealthy interests are not all the same. But you deceive yourself if you think any of them work for the people when it goes against the interest of their donors.
We have to force the congress and any president to work first for the people... to do that requires that ONLY the people elect them and give them their jobs.
Warren Buffet wants his taxes to go up, so when he donates to Hillary, it's not for him to get a tax break, it's for Hillary to uplift everyone, "Why be rich in a poor Country".
You won't be able to force the Repubs to do the people's work, they have been sold and paid for already, they work only for the rich.
They just repealed the inheritance tax which will cost us $650 billion in 10 years and affect 0.01% of the population.
But the Dems!
Look at how far they came with Gay rights, with birth Control, with abortion, with job security, the people demanded it, and forced the only party that will work for the people to do Something.
The Repubs are fighting these issues still today
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Studly
I'm skeptical of your conspiracy theory about how our Government works.
any links that spell it out?
Divide and Conquer, yes, the Repubs have used that agenda well, Goebbels would be proud.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 20, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
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We are a polarized nation because the right wing media has used lies, misinformation, out of context quotes and outright propaganda to attempt to destroy the Democrats, so hence we have one side of the aisle believing lies about how evil the Democrats are.
and then we have the liberals that can see what the Repubs are doing, and they have fought back with little headway because of the money disparity.
and hence we have a divided country.
The Repubs have nothing to run on, they don't have any achievement they can point to, not a single policy has been good for the country, so they use the only thing left, destroy the opposition and then say they aren't them, so you can vote for the Repub, or don't vote at all, which equals a vote for them.
The side that uses lies to divide it's population can be considered evil, at least we considered them evil when other country's did it.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Apr 20, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
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You can lead a horse to water....
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Apr 20, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
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PS. Folks, please keep the name calling out of this thread--it might last if we keep it civil.
lol this thread will be frozen in no time!!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 20, 2015 - 02:39pm PT
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Studly, I'm with you as far as economics & moneyed influence is concerned- both Parties are effectively driven in the same manner.
But in terms of policy enactments...do you really think the GOP would have taken on Healthcare Reform? As weak as Obama's efforts were (and in the pocket of the insurance industry), there are millions more people who actually have coverage now, and probably have a policy that holds more water than it used to. There's NO CHANCE a GOP POTUS would have touched that problem with a ten foot pole.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 20, 2015 - 02:47pm PT
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Goldman Sachs picks the presidential candidates, and tells us we have a choice between them. You really think you have a choice? or if you do that it makes any difference in the final outcome?
Yes, we have Citizens United. And yes, the ACA is a watered-down version of what we really need.
But, I can go out and get health insurance now, whereas without the ACA, I would be SOL.
Do you think a Republican president would have passed any health law that that states insurance companies may not deny converge on the basis of per-existing conditions? Be honest now...
The way I see it, it's good cop/bad cop. The Dems give bits to the people, whereas the GOP doesn't even give table scraps.
Edit: apogee, we're on the same page!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Apr 20, 2015 - 04:00pm PT
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I have to say one thing and one thing only, as for several years (I think) I have stayed out of political threads.
But that EdwardT sure knows his shitt.
(Apr 20, 2015 - 11:28am PT)
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More Air
Trad climber
S.L.C.
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Apr 20, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Apr 20, 2015 - 04:32pm PT
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George Washington University Constitutional Law Professor, Jonathan Turley, wisely noted, "Anyone who believes there are two parties in Washington DC is a fool."
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 20, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
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"...do you really think the GOP would have taken on Healthcare Reform? "
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