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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jun 24, 2014 - 07:45pm PT
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That just left me with an indelible craving / obsession for being on unknown terrain and I also just happened to LOVE placing pro. I also am all about the movement, particularly having my feet higher than my hands whenever possible.
Nice.
Like I said, respect.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 24, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
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Ron: H,, your two above posts reflect my exact thought -verbatim.. Whoda thunk that?? Even planets align for the odd eclipse now and then. Stranger things have happened and it's certainly not your climbing I find 'vexing'.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jun 24, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
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So Ron, how come you never led the bachar yerian...or tapestry? Is that because you were too big of a pussy even though it seems like u climbed allll the time? Thought so. Typical sore loser. People do BY now way more often than they did when u were roaming them roadside craggies of yours.
If you dont want me to bring in the honnolds of today why would you bring up bachar yerian or anything dano has done? Those were creme of the crop climbers bitd like honnold is today, no? IQ of a doorknob, I get it, no need to explain.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 24, 2014 - 09:30pm PT
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Vitaliy: If you dont want me to bring in the honnolds of today why would you bring up bachar yerian or anything dano has done? Those were creme of the crop climbers bitd like honnold is today, no?
A little quiz: what percentage of the total climbing demographic did Bachar & Co represent in their day versus Honold & Co. today?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 24, 2014 - 09:38pm PT
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sounds like a new chorus of My Generation...
probably the number of serious climbers in our generation is somewhat less than the number of serious climbers of the current generation...
fractions don't mean much, the sport is very popular due to gym climbing, and for the most part, gym climbers don't do first ascents...
there is enough bad azzness in all the climbing generations, it wasn't limited to one or the other.
Not sure why Ron wants to start a fight over this...
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jun 24, 2014 - 09:40pm PT
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Ed I actually agree with you, but I am sure not everyone else does. I have rap bolted plenty but I am constantly looking for new trad routes. They are getting hard to find. I also feel so much awesome terrain has been opened in other styles it is worth a lot of respect, and I would say most of that terrain would not have been opened in such a traditional style. I think what you are describing is better described as most traditional style rather than best. I also feel rap bolting ect has not taken over the really classic traditional areas as much as many would have you believe. The sky is not falling.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 24, 2014 - 09:54pm PT
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Ed: there is enough bad azzness in all the climbing generations, it wasn't limited to one or the other.
True, but not as a percentage of the demographic. Some folks love to roll out this and that climber can crush old school and they're right, but for every one of them there are now millions of folks who couldn't get up your average Eldo 5.10 with just a set of nuts and hexs. Are today's accomplishments amazing? F*#k yes. But we now select for those individuals out of an ocean-like demographic, the vast majority of whom don't remotely possess their capabilities even though some claim they're common as dirt when that just isn't the case at all.
mike m: I also feel rap bolting ect has not taken over the really classic traditional areas as much as many would have you believe.
I'd suspect that has less to do with climber restraint and to do with active and tight public and private land management at those areas (Eldo and Gunks come to mind).
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jun 24, 2014 - 10:21pm PT
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It was me who started it...by calling Ron out for manufacturing a route.
Sorry to change the vibe.
So back on topic....
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 24, 2014 - 10:39pm PT
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Are we brave enough to walk away from the things we don't have the balls to do?
Sure, all the time. Fortunately there is no shortage of new lines to in best possible (ie sliding) style
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jun 25, 2014 - 04:20am PT
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FortMental, Nice, Very nice.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 25, 2014 - 06:31am PT
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DMT: I'd like to see you do an Eldo 5.10 with just a set of nuts and hexes. Put out!
Was never a problem doing just that back in the '70s and wouldn't hesitate to do the same today, but then whipping out a cam every time I reach for a piece isn't my first instinct.
In fact, I keep proposing a 'National Cam-Free Day' for some eye-opening historical perspective, but it just never seems to gain any traction. Then again, SARS around the country are busy enough without it raining climbers.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 25, 2014 - 06:39am PT
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Mark F: You get even more points if you do it with a swami belt, no chalk, and no dogging.
Not a problem given I still don't dog and don't use chalk.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jun 25, 2014 - 06:47am PT
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Healyje, oops, I deleted that post. I posted that more as a celebration of that style rather than a personal challenge. I like your style and we are pretty much on the same page. I'll show up for "national Cam Free Day!" Sounds like fun.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 25, 2014 - 07:04am PT
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DMT: I'd like to see you do an Eldo 5.10 with just a set of nuts and hexes. Put out!
Was never a problem doing just that back in the '70s and wouldn't hesitate to do the same today, but then whipping out a cam every time I reach for a piece isn't my first instinct.
In fact, I keep proposing a 'National Cam-Free Day' for some eye-opening historical perspective, but it just never seems to gain any traction. Then again, SARS around the country are busy enough without it raining climbers.
It was before my time as a climber, but as I understand it, in the 70's a typical Eldo free climb was still loaded with fixed pins from aid ascents, so the nuts and hexes were essentially supplemental gear between fixed pieces.
Consider Country Club Crack (not Eldo but Boulder Canyon)--I believe the hard climbing (on the 2nd pitch) used to be entirely protected with fixed pins (this is from talking with people who did it back "in the day"). Now there are no fixed pins (near the hard climbing; for whatever reason there's still a random junker or two somewhere up there).
If anything, modern "trad" climbing is significantly bolder than 70's "style," which was more similar to sport climbing in that it was "clip and go."
Edit: I should add, while it isn't my "thing," I can see that lots of Eldo 10s could be safely led with just nuts; the climbing there lends itself to nut protection much better than at some other areas that feature more wide, parallel cracks.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 25, 2014 - 07:05am PT
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Fort wrote: Are we brave enough to walk away from the things we don't have the balls to do?
So romantic.
Blah wrote: If anything, modern "trad" climbing is significantly bolder than 70's "style," which was more similar to sport climbing in that it was "clip and go."
Really...well I was there and even through there was some fixed gear you are way off the mark. Modern trad climbers on the harder/headpoints top rope them into submission, prefixed gear and usually start from the top down...just like sport climbers.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 25, 2014 - 07:34am PT
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Jefe is of Satan. Promoting chipped climbs.
I salute all of you who climbed with nuts and hexes and had pterodactyl eggs for breakfast.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jun 25, 2014 - 07:37am PT
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So is Healy.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 25, 2014 - 07:45am PT
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drljefe's link has the next to last line:
Or is it instead more sensible to recognize that it is sometimes acceptable for preparers to modify the rock so other climbers can have the sort of experience you had?
in the article written by a professional philosopher, whose article demolishes the arguments against manufacturing climbs.
He does say he never has manufactured a climb, I wonder why?
Is there any sentiment here that supports manufacturing climbs (chipping, gluing, taping, etc)?
(I suppose "it depends" will be the most extreme answer).
DMT, you a climb manufacturer? why or why not?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jun 25, 2014 - 08:32am PT
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Thanks for reading that article Ed.
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