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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
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The answer is that you fail to see my point that FED has no business in the education, energy, or healthcare laws. They can regulate, but THEY (C)ANNOT MANDATE!!!!
Well, first of all, the U.S. Departments of Education, Energy, and Health and Human Services would probably disagree. That takes care of the Executive branch of government. So too would the Senate Committee on Energy & Natural Resources and the House Subcommittee on Energy & Mineral Resources--just to mention two Congressional Committees with oversight over Federal energy policy. The courts also disagree with you. That's three strikes. You're out.
Curt
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
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Warbler writes:
"The ACA doesn't provide, it attempts to promote health care for all."
Promotes by restricting? Orwell would remind you he was right - just thirty years ahead.
Forcing is not promoting. Restricting free choice is not promoting anything.
We're losing the language here.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
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Well, first of all, the U.S. Departments of Education, Energy, and Health and Human Services would probably disagree. That takes care of the Executive branch of government. So too would the Senate Committee on Energy & Natural Resources and the House Subcommittee on Energy & Mineral Resources--just to mention two Congressional Committees with oversight over Federal energy policy. The courts also disagree with you. That's three strikes. You're out.
Curt
Re-read your Constitution, stupid! And this is why I reiterate this.
We have become victims of the Fed! They declare their authority. Nobody challenges them.
And they continue to expand their powers. Energy Dept, EPA, Education, et. al.
EDIT: Chaz,
You are forced to register your car, forced to insure your car, forced to wear a seat belt, forced to stop at red lights, forced to pay taxes, forced to follow building codes, forced to drive the speed limit, forced to refrain from murdering people. These things all promote the general welfare.
Capiche?
Why is health insurance so different?
State and Fed are different, bro. And so is the CHOICE to drive. Why does the Federal Gov't have to pay for your healthcare? Why? Do they pay for your car? Your home? WHy Healthcare?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
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Bluey the Constitution is an uneven work composed by flawed men.....too many church goers and slave owners in their ranks.
Damn....just bit my tongue, thought it was in my cheek.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
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So if we decide it's a good idea to stop at the red lights and go on the green ones, then there's no limit to what Federal Government can force Americans to do?
I don't quite follow your argument.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
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All these commerce clause arguments were conclusively resolved many, many decades ago. The limited federal power people lost. What is or is not prudent is one thing, but saying the likes of the EPA is not permitted by the constitution is just right wing radio blather.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
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Bluey the Constitution is an uneven work composed by flawed men.....too many church goers and slave owners in their ranks.
It's a perfect document. It's just unworthy of the filth today in Congress, and the streets. (and on the rocks)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
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I must have a "flaw" in my moral compass.
EDIT:
Why do they pay for Medicaid, Medicare, the VA? Why?
So why the new 'program'????
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skywalker
climber
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
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"I can't think of any better way to promote the general welfare than to provide for the health of the people."
I am not arguing with you Kos but Allen came to my class and gave this talk, its probably the most sobering first 15 minutes of a class I ever had and I now teach it every year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umFnrvcS6AQ
"Human Dilemma" is spot on.
S...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
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The Federal Government is the only available avenue to help out the less fortunate?
I'd say if you want bang for your buck, keep the Federal Government as far away from it as possible.
Have you been paying attention to The News over the last couple months? You want to give the Federal Government more responsibility? Especially for something important?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
The first unalienable right is Life. To secure this most important right we institute government.
In this modern world there is no better way to secure life than by access to modern comprehensive healthcare.
This is a no brainer. It can easily be argued that any legitimate governments first or close to first duties is to secure healthcare for it's citizens.
Course most of the modern world doesn't even consider this up for argument.
Werner is correct.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
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We have always cared for the suffering that we find.
Never call me incompassionate. And I give w/o regard or compensation.
I care, but expect people to help themselves too!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
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climbski2 writes:
"This is a no brainer. It can easily be argued that any legitimate governments first or close to first duties is to secure healthcare for it's citizens."
What if the same thing can be accomplished - probably better - without government control? Shouldn't that be the default system?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
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What if the same thing can be accomplished - probably better - without government control? Shouldn't that be the default system?
Why can government insure the folks private insurance can't?
You guys are aware of something called medicare right?
Those arguing that a private for profit corporation with a small pool of insured can do a better job providing comprehensive healthcare payments than a truly non-profit complete pool ...
well I think you are not thinking straight.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
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What if the same thing can be done - probably better - without government control? Shouldn't that be the default system?
Some people just can't understand charity, yet they look to the gov't for a handout.
Look to God and your local Church, not the gov't. Your neighbor may be a better friend than the gov't. Wake up!!!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
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Some people just can't understand charity, yet they look to the gov't for a handout.
Look to God and your local Church, not the gov't. Your neighbor may be a better friend than the gov't. Wake up!!!
Oh cool you mean there are churches that will give me 100k for those medical bills?
sign me up
PRAISE THE LORD!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
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Dr F writes:
"NO, because the private sector runs on profit
Healthcare should Not be Profit driven."
Profit is what encourages people to get up in the morning and go to work.
Profit is what is what causes expansion of services.
For chrissakes, profit is why supplies are inventoried.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 18, 2013 - 12:01am PT
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I give up tonight.
Look for others to care for you, that will end well.....
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 18, 2013 - 12:01am PT
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SO government should be a for profit system?
Blue Ring or Chaz
I ask you seriously. Do you acknowledge any purpose whatsoever for government?
Why shouldn't government administer a simple no profit insurance pool? There are many benefits of a comprehensive insurance pool. It is the best pool possible for one thing.
Second it allows a reverse monopoly. requiring competing service providers to cater to a single customer. This not only spreads the risk most efficiently it allows the customer the highest possible leverage for setting prices in their favor.
I have not seen anyone here argue for a socialist medical system. Just a single government insurance pool serviced by for profit providers.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 18, 2013 - 12:02am PT
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Where do you live, J.Shilo?
Check the names on the hospitals. Here, we have St Mary's, LLUMC, St Bernadine's, Cedars Sinai - just to name a few. Sounds church related to me.
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