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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 22, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
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I think your wrong Tradman, the reason so many have posted here is that unlike you they feel indignant over the cutting of said tree for access to a (rock climb),period. They understand the intrinsic value of a tree species that are among the oldest growing in the world. That's great that you value trees for the wood that provides heat for your house but if that is all trees mean to you I feel sorry for you.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
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This the modern version of a Pillory.
Daphne, no offense but there there is no comparison. This is a calling out session directed toward the culprits in an act of vandalism that reflects very negatively on the "sport" of rock climbing. We have enough sensitive access and land use issues as it is without this kind of unnecessary negative imagery.
Arriza, I don't give a rats ass about this thread, unfortunately it is not even about climbing at this point. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else, I am simply expressing thoughts.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
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Johntp...not that it matters at all, and I mean this because cutting the tree was a bad move, but the route is letter grades harder than 5.12. Get the facts straight before you spew, rather skew, the argument in your favor.
I don't give a rat's ass what the grade was, it could be .16; the end does not justify the means. You did not respond to my statement that there is a difference between legally harvested wood versus whacking a live tree illegally.
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
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I'm just kind of bummed to think that a portion of the hard earned money I spend on equipment, which I depend on for my safety, will go to support the recreational lifestyle of a doofus, whose actions potentially threaten my ability to enjoy the same activity that supports him. Not that he is defined by this one thing, but it seems pretty exceptionally dumb. Also, they looked like pretty cool trees. Only a couple stumps will remain for the next few generations, which will definitely change the "vibe" for future visitors. Finally, maybe it isn't similar, but I heard that the Black Corridor was once a really nice place for a picnic, filled with birds and wildlife...
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
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You finally posted something I wholeheartedly agree with Wes.
fukwad
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
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Johntp. the reason for the outrage is about 10% concern over the tree and 90% pack syndrome blood lust.
Ok. If 90% of those on a very experienced forum disagree with the 10%, they are all wrong and I'm still right. Narcissistic logic at it's best.
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
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Arriza, I don't give a rats ass about this thread Kalimon, yes you do, the title says it all.
unfortunately it is not even about climbing at this point. ....because thats what you intended right?
You did not respond to my statement that there is a difference between legally harvested wood versus whacking a live tree illegally. John, that question wasn't asked of me but I'll answer it. There's a difference yes. Joe poached a juniper, he f*#ked up, he knows it.
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tom Carter
Social climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
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We have all really really screwed up in our day.
We are having a hard time separating ourselves from the emotions. But now I think its best to see what good can come of this.
I know, i know, but who needs another round of vitriolic flaming shooters - it poisons everything.
Lets encourage Joe and hope he makes a bold move, to share and teach and hence make the value exceed the cost of the Juniper.
The balls in his court.
Imagine facing all this. Lets calm down and encourage him to be bold and honest and creative.
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
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my last comment...
others have done more by using less, and they will be remembered longer
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
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Thanks, Tom. Your post is golden amongst the mud.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
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Imagine facing all this. Lets calm down and encourage him to be bold and honest and creative.
I think he has already demonstrated his creativity.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA/Joshua Tree
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:47pm PT
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Dean/Cragman...at this point I completely agree. What's done is one. Time to move on.
The tree suffered. We all know that.
Joe suffered from the backlash of the climbing community at large that he literally works full-time to represent (not propping him up, but he is a full time pro whose job it is to reflect the best of our sport). As well as the goodwill of his sponsors (I have heard back from some and am impressed with the concern they've had for this incident).
Sterling Ropes in particular had a long and thoughtful response to my direct questions that really made me think of the bigger picture of what this one act affected. For climbers, for access issues, for those who make the gear and equipment we all use and who had nothing to do with Joe's actions but will suffer the potential consequences, the Tahoe climbing community...the list goes on from one person's act.
His sponsors did not condone this. But they've worked with him enough and he's given enough back to them and the climbing world as a whole as an ambassador for as long as he has that at this point, I truly believe he realizes that with one stupid act he threw away so much goodwill of our sport as a whole. That must be a very heavy weight on one's shoulders.
I hope he's going to pick himself up and move forward from this and be a better spokesman for stewardship of the land than we could hope for. Who knows...maybe his redemption path will be making those kids in the gym today more environmentally aware as they go out into the natural world later. And be a great next generation of stewards of the lands in which we climb.
Maybe we'll all learn more from this one act. What's done is done. I can only hope for everything to just move forward from this point.
And for those new folks who came into the threads calling us anonymous internet cowards, my name is Beth Shilliday. But those already on ST regularly know that cause I'm a longtime poster. Which is why I don't sign it to any post. But I will on this one so you all know how I feel.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 23, 2013 - 12:01am PT
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Time to move on as has been suggested? Perhaps for most so forgive me but for some let me describe the juniper; a picture is worth a thousand words. You'll find these on ST's Great Tree Thread:
I think what is so astounding and admirable about the juniper is its perseverance. It grows despite what nature throws at it with specimens in the Sierra upwards toward 3,000 years old.
I've read up thread defense which I can appreciate coming from the hearts of friends and even those who don't know JK that admire his skill and dedication. There are some who need to understand while California can certainly grow trees, the juniper is a special one. I burn wood to heat my home with black oak, pine, fir and cedar, these trees grow like weeds on the Western Slope. The juniper however is here for the long haul.
I've often sat in front of them thinking how my life has had its challenges as I can see in the lines of the juniper. They are ancient souls, if only they could talk.
The act is done and what concerns me now is JK, he is being bullied. I hope his family and friends will gather around and help him through, this blasting on ST isn't the end for him. It's not going to be easy, but like all things in life he has choices on how to play the cards, one of which he chose himself.
I hope for him success, I have to believe based on what I've read he is a good man and a hard worker. But I also have to believe he is young which in my book is the get out of jail card. He has the chance to make things right and time to do it.
I suppose in a way he's been struck, not so different than the a juniper being hit by an avalanche or lightning. It will shape him and I truly hope into a soul as beautiful as the juniper, sky's witness.
Charlie D.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 23, 2013 - 12:12am PT
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They are ancient souls, if only they could talk.
Every living entity talks.
One must learn their way of speaking to hear them.
Even the deaf can hear them .....
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Oct 23, 2013 - 12:17am PT
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But I also have to believe he is young
Just how old is he?
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ChizzDizzle
Trad climber
Rocklin,CA
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Oct 23, 2013 - 12:30am PT
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Thank you Charlie D!!!! The relatives of the victim are speaking in your pics.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Oct 23, 2013 - 02:49am PT
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From Ethan:
Route developers are often faced with tough decisions that most climbers never have to make...
... and should therefore be knowledgeable about the environment they are in before they inflict irreparable damage. They may consider asking the locals or doing an hour or so of research. We've all identified plants... junipers are pretty easy to identify... you all have iPhones, right?
BTW, glad to see Joe appears to be willing to make amends. Hopefully others will learn from this mistake.
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jfailing
Trad climber
PDX, North Slope, The Open Road
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Oct 23, 2013 - 02:50am PT
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The spew of hatred in this thread is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
This is a perfect example of internet bullying.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Oct 23, 2013 - 06:12am PT
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Charlie D- thank you for your post.
I suspect that is how many feel though I can only speak...er,write for myself and you've pulled the right words out of my head.
If Joe or Ethan read this I hope you take Charlie's post to heart.
And WB hits the nail on the head (again). All living things speak. You just have to know how to listen.
cheers
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 23, 2013 - 06:48am PT
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I find out after work tonight what the dog duties are going to be.... Yikes what have I gotten myself into.......
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