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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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The residents of Eldorado Springs intentionally keep the dirt road through the community in poor shape just to deter potential visitors to Eldorado Canyon State Park. They really don't want anybody visiting or passing through their community.
The people up in Ward used to do that until that rode got paved. The people living up off of Lee Hill Road got the last 100 yards or so of their road off of Left Hand Canyon to be left unpaved to deter tourist traffic. That section eventually got paved.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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That's the first step, for sure. Pave the road. Paving the road might also get people thinking how to create some more parking spaces.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Not one word about the pool and it impact on the town, parking and road. What a joke this has become.
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local
Social climber
eldorado springs
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All the roads, and much of the parking, in Eldorado Springs are privately owned by Eldorado Artesian Springs, Inc. Over the last several years, a plan for improving the road was collaboratively developed by the owners, State Parks, Boulder County, and Eldorado Springs residents. When (if) the final agreement is approved by the State and owners, the road and parking will be dramatically improved, benefiting the resort, residents, and park visitors.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Driving in and out of Eldo on July 4th after climbing, I looked at the post office with the eye of what the parking area would look like with 20-something cars parked in the lot. I really don't think it would work at all. For a greater number of cars, the AAC would need a full time attendant to sort the mess out. The picture upthread posted of the location and lot really doesn't accurately show the potential parking situation very accurately. It would seem that the AAC would have to limit the number of visitors with cars to less than the number of beds it would have in the hostel.
For the residents of Eldo Springs, keep in mind that if the hostel is placed at a different location where visiting climbers will need to drive to the canyon, you will have more traffic driving through your town. If the potential number of cars is truly 44, which seems high to me, think about the impact of that number of cars driving all the way through town, as opposed to the edge of town where the post office is. If the climbers' hostel is inevitable at some location or another, the issues around the increased impact to Eldo Springs may possibly be better managed having the AAC as a good neighbor. Having seen the chaos (and I suppose having been part of it) of all the cars driving through on July 4th, I cannot imagine that any town resident would want that problem to get any worse than it currently is. It may be more productive for your community to decide what it would absolutely need in order to support the AAC coming to your town, (such as they pay for any sewer issues, requiring climbers staying at the hostel to walk to the canyon, etc.), and then see where the conversation goes.
I'm in problem-solving mode on this, and I think taking out the preconceived, hard-stances and some of the emotion will go far in a positive result for all.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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The only entrance to the state park is a private road? Owned by a business that's obviously a scam? The state should take it by eminent domain, particularly since the reason for not paving it (for how long now, 50 years?) is to keep people out. I agree about the pool, too, turn it into a parking lot.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Bob, on July 4th, between the picnickers going to the canyon, and the folks going to the pool, the traffic and parking situation in Eldo Springs was an absolute mess. I think on an average day during the summer, the pool has a much more negative impact on town than any climbers' hostel would.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I have no vested interest in Eldorado Springs, but jeez, what a bunch of NIMBY-ism.
Suck it up, a place that climbers stay at isn't going to be party central.
I've stayed at climbers hostels before. Granted, they were in Europe, but I never encountered a party scene. It was more coffee and friendly conversation than whiskey and raucous discourse.
And, if you discount the Euro comparison, you don't realize that most climbers IMO, are intelligent, respectful folks.
How many parking spaces are currently available at this location?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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wbw...that was my point...the pool has a huge impact on parking and the town.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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the "Condarosa" looks like it's about 5 km from the climbing, about 3 miles...
perhaps the AAC could have mountain bikes available from that venue... hiking in wouldn't be horrendous but about an hour.
The wording of the petition, and reading the article, it certainly seems as if there are definite "themes" that some local Eldorado Springs residents are voicing...
Certainly there is a local interest in maintaining the current status quo for the use of the former Post Office. It must be convenient for locals to be able to use that space without having to own it. The current owner, unable to sell due to "community opposition" to the buyer's planned use, is then compelled to offer the space at depressed value.
Another theme that emerges is the fear that the hostel will bring in undesirable elements. Climbers are often characterized as an economic lower class. But there is also the explicit reference in the petition wording that the hostel will attract lower class people, "people of all types who are seeking inexpensive lodging from all over the Denver metro area," to stay in that community. That's not how the AAC works.
Finally, there is the theme that seems to desire less use of Eldorado Canyon for climbing and climbers, which is diametrically opposed to the AAC's desire to make this climbing area more accessible to climbers.
When I read Levin's guide "front matter" there is the statement that the: "unfortunately for the visiting climber, there is no camping in Eldorado Canyon State Park and a dearth of camping opportunities in the Boulder area. The closest campground is the privately owned 10-site Boulder Mountain Lodge, located two miles east of the town in Boulder Canyon. ..."
Also from that guide is the information that the climbing season for Eldo is late spring through the fall, and not in the winter. It would seem the AAC would have to work out what the Hostel use would be during the winter when, presumably, the climbers wouldn't be there.
The fear of "people of all types" seems to drive much of the opposition to the AAC's proposal, which if lost, certainly benefits the current situation, and accomplishes the desire among some of the locals to reduce access to the climbing.
I find the suspicion of the AAC's "agenda" to be suspicious in its own right.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Where is this Condarosa?
http://www.5325.wkre.com/
This option makes the post office look just plain retarded, especially with Condarosa's commercial zoning - and it's not even the only better option available. Seems the difference in capacity and maintenance would more than offset the cost difference.
+1 for mission's simple words - it isn't going to happen, so why bother? Why waste the resources and erode your reputation? Do any of you have any first hand experience with Boulder's codes? It sure doesn't sound like it.
Where is Penn's apology?
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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If it won't work as a hostel, it looks like it could work as a rehab center for drug addicts. At $80K each for a 30 day stay, it should only take 6 or so patients to make this quite profitable. Won't need a lot of parking spaces either.
There you go Eldo, problem solved.
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noriko nakagawa
Trad climber
eldorado springs co
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Regarding the numerous references to the Tetons Climbers' Ranch, it's in the middle of open space, not in a limited parking residential area.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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You can climb in Eldorado Canyon year around. In the cold winter months the cliffs of the West Ridge, much like the base of El Capitan, are warm and inviting.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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You can climb in Eldorado Canyon year around. In the cold winter months the cliffs of the West Ridge, much like the base of El Capitan, are warm and inviting.
You can climb year round on some days, and nice winter days can be perfect. But they're the exception--many winter (and late fall / early spring) days are absolutely shut down, and many others are marginal, so a local may head out for a few pitches, but it's certainly not where you'd go for a winter climbing vacation.
Peak summer is also climable in the morning and the shade, but again, who would plan a vacation to climb in Eldo in July or August? (Lots of people may wonder who would ever plan a vacation to climb in Eldo, but that's a different issue.)
Bottom line is that the weather only supports destination climbing (as opposed to local climbing) for half the year or so.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Bottom line is that the weather only supports destination climbing (as opposed to local climbing) for half the year or so.
I would disagree. Yes, there can be snow days when climbing is shut down, but the winters on the Front Range are generally mild. I don't think you can assume that Eldorado Canyon would only be a destination spot six months of the year. April through November are usually very good months and that's eight by my count.
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steve shea
climber
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Teton Climbers Ranch was never mentioned as a similar situation. Only that it serves as as good example of how well run it is. I'm sure the AAC would administer the new Eldo Climbers Hostel in a similar way. The NPS has some draconian rules and regulations. Although the Ranch does not have the same issues, it is in no way grandfathered or enjoys free run of the park. The park recognized the the mountaineering heritage of the area and worked with the AAC to make it happen. Win, win.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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I would disagree. Yes, there can be snow days when climbing is shut down, but the winters on the Front Range are generally mild. I don't think you can assume that Eldorado Canyon would only be a destination spot six months of the year. April through November are usually very good months and that's eight by my count.
OK, we'll just disagree then. I've lived and climbed in Boulder for over 20 years, but you may be tougher than me, certainly lots of climbers are!
But let me dispute your April - November count by at least two months: I think very few locals would say that July and August have typically good climbing in Eldo, or even really tolerable except in early morning. And some of the routes in the shade (e.g., at Peanuts) are fun, but they're not what make Eldo sorta destination quality. Today is a fairly typical day--high projected to be low 90s, with the common threat of afternoon thunderstorm thrown in to boot.
I agree that July and August can be good climbing months close to the Front Range, but that's the climbing at elevation (especially high peaks, which are mostly only climable around then, for mere mortals). Eldo's about as low/hot as it gets around here.
I don't know if it's expected that climbers will stay at the proposed hostel and climb around the Front Range but not specifically Eldo--that could change the dynamics quite a bit.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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A hostel in Boulder would be fully occupied and raging 24/7/365, no matter how big they made it. There is a lot to do here all year long and everyone from everywhere wants to come here to do it.
If they put one in somewhere larger than a 3600 sq ft rat hole, I'd even consider re-joining the AAC just to support it. Everyone wants to see one get built. It could be a new center for climbing and for the AAC. Sorry, nobody gives a sh#t about the library. Sell that useless dump and relocate somewhere people will actually visit.
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SuperTopo on the Web
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21+ potential lodgers per night would represent at least a 5% increase in the ES townsite population and this would mean nearly 8000 annual lodgers;
Let us know!