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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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And another opinion from someone on the mountain (really too casual if you ask me).
Thomas Stromstedt
Guys – ignore the press reports about Sherpas attacking climbers. It’s BS. The whole story is a storm in a tea cup. My understanding of the story: A (famous) Italian climber traversed over some rope fixing Sherpas on the Lhotse face and kicked off ice which hit the Sherpas. The Italian made a mistake a should have apologized but instead used foul language and offended the Sherpas further (the mountains are dwelling places of deities in the Sherpa culture’s belief). The whole thing could have been resolved by a sincere apology from the Italian who did a reckless and dangerous thing. The Sherpas support each other and it instead became a bit of a drama/fight when the Italian didn’t do the natural thing (apologize). It’s definitely not the question that Sherpa guides attacked their clients.
http://www.explorersweb.com/offsite/?source=http%3A%2F%2Fthomas-2013-everest.com%2F2013%2F05%2F02%2Fsupposed-sherpa-attack%2F&lang=en
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Societal dissimilarity notwithstanding, no one feels warm and fuzzy being invited to fight. And the identity chafing Sherpas have endured...could only add to their chagrin.
...not an event impelling them to bow in admiration of cultural difference.
Not being a warlike people, should westerners assume Sherpas take any less offense at a summons to physically clash?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Just wait until they complete the gondola into the Western Cwm.
"Lets get ready to RUMBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE!"
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WBraun
climber
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Thomas Stromstedt's opinion is the most coherent voice I've seen in this whole fiasco .......
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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"amber"
Ken, get a grip. You've read one account and have taken it as the gospel truth.
Not even close.
Chad Kellogg, Steck, the Russians and Melissa Arnot.
Only one of those was on the climb. So you are only taking one side into account, and the word of mouth from that person to other climbers.
Yeah, nice and unbiased.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I'm basing most of my comments on what I see as the most credible accounts, triangulating between Chad Kellogg, Steck, the Russians and Melissa Arnot. If those accounts prove to be wrong, I'll revise my views then.
“The events at Camp Two can only be described as sad and unacceptable,” said Melissa Arnot, an American mountaineer who told AFP she had helped separate the two sides.
“I think the foreign climbers made the mistakes and the Sherpas made some mistakes in communication,” she later told American television channel ABC.
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orle
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
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Maybe so, maybe "they made the mistakes", but would that justify killing them? Or to threaten to kill them? Stab them with a knife?
I don't know what Simone said when he was riled up, I can imagine him being a bit intense in a situation like that, but the Sherpa reaction sounds way, way over the top.
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orle
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
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We at "SOE" have heard all manner of things done against the "morals of the mountain".
Weve seen base camp look like the largest civilization in Nepal. Little cutties posing in front of the memorials looking like a stripper ad. All manner of improper relations on the mtn, bickering and competition between damm near each and every guide and or "team", thefts of "ohwzz" and other supplies, while at each and every turn,, there are Sherpas trudgin on up anyhow, to set the ropes for countless IDGETS whos only qualification for being there was a deep pocket.
Its said that to give a man a fish feeds him for the day, and teaching a man to fish feeds him for life. That is what the euro/westerners on Everst have done really. They Taught the Sherpas the nature of the game so now its time to let them feed themselves from it. Thats just small time evolution, and imo, they deserve that chance and respect. All the Euro/west influence has done is to turn it into the shyt hole it is.
I dont THINK any Sherpa would bring 100 friggin "clients" as his "team" do you?
Shut the f*#k up, Donny.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The frickin Sherpa's don't own the frickin mountain!!! Westerner's are not the Sherpa's guests!!!! Sherpa's aren't servants but they are paid employees. Gimme a frickin, bleeding heart break.
The Sherpa are Nepalese Citizens. They are part owners of their own country. The Westerners are not. The westerners are short term immigrants, and have no say in how the country is run, nor how it's lands are administered. None.
You describe the Sherpa as employees. If so, they are contracted under the laws of Nepal, not the US, or Germany, nor Sweden. Inasmuch as you are not an Nepalese attorney, you should not be so sure as to what that contractual arrangement includes.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Ron,
I'm not sure I entirely understand that last post, but I think we are largely on the same page...the native people control their own lands, and should do so.
It had to happen.....
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neversummer
climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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Again..yaks and lobsters are the only way to roll
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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I would gather from the response then that no one here on the taco has been to the Himalayas or met a Sherpa let alone share part of your life with
These great people
Y'all sure do talk like you have
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michael feldman
Mountain climber
millburn, nj
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Note that while Sherpa are from Nepal, and roughly half of Everest (and certainly the South side) is contained in Nepal, the Sherpa are not the government. The Nepal government has every right to pass whatever laws it wants regulating Everest and who can do what (whether people like it or not). They have passed the laws/rules they deem appropriate and are free to pass more. Neither the individual Sherpa on the mountain nor the "western" climbers (which is a completely overused term as people tend to use it to mean EVERYONE who is not a Sherpa) have the right to make the rules or pass the laws on Everest - just as no American has the right to make the laws for his/her hometown outside of the political process. The laws passed by the applicable government (China and Nepal) are the only laws in effect on Everest. Everything else is merely self-regulation and mutual respect (or lack thereof). Nepal is free to pass a law which limits the numbers of climbers, the routes they can climb, the days they can climb, or even appoint representatives to govern what occurs on the mountain (as some places have done in the past). Nepal could make Everest like the earlier days on Denali where the rangers had to approve climbers based upon their "resume" and numbers. Nepal is free to appoint Sherpa as rangers on the mountain with specific jobs and rules that people must follow. However, none of this has happened.
It is one thing for commercial groups and other climbers to get together and make their own rules for themselves. It is another thing to try to force others who are not part of these groups to follow those rules - even if doing so would be nice or useful. For example, what if Moro and Steck told everyone that they plan on climbing on a certain day, so they want the commercial expeditions to not climb on that day? Would that fly if Moro and Steck announced their plans first? I assume not. So why should the opposite apply - except possibly in the name of courtesy or getting along.
All of this being said, the old saying of "sticks and stones may hurt my bones, but words will never hurt me" should apply. There are no words in this situation which would ever justify physical violence. Furthermore, all these Everest and high altitude experts (i.e., all the players in this fiasco) should know that with lack of oxygen, judgment sometimes gets clouded, and therefore, people are more likely to say and do things which are not completely rational.
Time to stop the name calling and blame gaming, and work towards a solution which will improve the situation on the mountain and hopefully prevent something like this from happening again. Then again, perhaps if you choose to climb a mountain by a route which gets this crowded, dealing with people's personalities is simply part of the risk.
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Amber.C
climber
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It's funny--I'm consistently impressed by how intelligent the average climber is when I interact with them at campgrounds, at the crags, etc. Really, genuinely smart and well-read people, and generally well-rounded intellectually.
But when I interact with them on internet forums, it's a f*#king gong show. I'm sure this applies to me as well, sadly.
*Note, this has nothing to do with opinions one way or the other on this issue*--just the inability to understand logical argumentation and make points in a cogent manner.
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orangesporanges
Social climber
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I have Stewart J.
This year, the Nepalese Ministry has finally decided to recognise the Expedition Operators Association (EOA) as an official body. Much lobbying by HIMEX, Adventure Consultants and IMG has led to this. In the past, Russ brice and Guy Cotter had been heard to complain when other expeditions either
* Were willing to pay Sherpa below the 'market rate'
* Were willing to pay Sherpa above the 'market rate'
Their have been high-profile professional climbers who have felt to pay above the 'market rate' in the past. This annoys some of the commercial expedition teams, who have 'trained-up' and kitted-out Sherpas who have then gone onto work in following years to climb for someone who pays more.
This year, the big commercial companies (Expedition Operators Association) fixed prices. Sherpas carrying loads for HIMEX and Adventure Consultants this season are paid
Base Camp to C2 - 30 USD (per load)
C2 to C3 - 40 USD (per load)
C4 to the summit - 400 USD (per load)
Climbers using the fixed ropes must pay
For Everest 230 USD (per climber)
For Lhotse 150 USD (per climber)
Clients are charged around $62,000 USD to climb Everest with Russ Brice
HIMEX IFMGA/UIAGM Guides on Everest are paid well-enough. Woody for example owns a nice-enough house in Twizel, NZ. Russ Brice owns a pretty nice house in the French Alps and various investment property.
Ueli Stech makes good coin, though lives pretty modestly. Jon Griffith is paid well for his photographs, though their isn't enough work (yet), to own a fancy house.
Simone Moro has accrued assets, and sunk some of it into his Everest rescue chopper initiative. While hoping to recoup costs, this initiative is unlikely to make him big money. The service is free to all Nepali nationals. It's existence can minimize the risks of exposure to Sherpa who are often involved in rescues. Commercial Expedition Operators often boast about how they 'paid for for their own Sherpas to go rescue someone that wasn't a paid member of their expedition'.
Lots of frustration. Ueli, Jon and Simone feel they are not responsible for the building tensions. They agree with the Sherpa position on fair income-share. But don't feel that beating them-up was deserved. More than anything else, Ueli fixed the 200 odd metres of rope (which apparently offended the Sherpa) because he didn't want to be blamed by the commercial expedition operators for slowing their progress for the day.
The Sherpa tried a mob-bullied approach.
Some of the Commercial Operators, while they may not condone physical violence, have been pretty quiet about the incident when it comes to their dispatches. Their has been talk amongst Commercial Operators, to put a little pressure on the purported 'free-loaders' on the mountain who either don't pay to use the fixed ropes, or who pay, but don't use them when they've been told they 'will be allowed too'.
Territorial pizzings by the commercial operators is at the root of all this. Ueli, Simone and Jon's objection to it got a response.
The Sherpa went after the wrong guys.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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It is one thing for commercial groups and other climbers to get together and make their own rules for themselves. It is another thing to try to force others who are not part of these groups to follow those rules - even if doing so would be nice or useful.
Glad that you take the position that, since it is not illegal to throw rocks in the wilderness, that it is absolutely ok for people on top of mountains to throw rocks off the top onto climbers. The bigger the better!
What you describe is not what happened. ALL climbers at EBC were invited to come to the safety meeting. Climbing Everest is still dangerous. It is MORE dangerous with a bunch of people up there. Taking measures to ensure that the danger is minimized, is only reasonable.
However, if there are climbers who will not participate in safety practices, you can be sure that new regulations will be put into place. This is what happens when climbers do not regulate themselves. There is a consequence for bad behavior.
There are no words in this situation which would ever justify physical violence.
Once again, the "Ugly American", who now defines cultural practices for all people, everywhere. Taking the position that there are NO words that would justify violence means to me that you've never been in a bar late at night. You've never been in Harlem, and yelled out "ni**er". Glad to hear that there has NEVER been a fight in Camp 4.
But the key to your sentence is "justify". It would be better to say "result in", because you don't know what is going on in other peoples' heads. Escalating the situation by profanity, and calling people out, is not likely to result in a calm resolution, in Nepal, nor anywhere else.
Try this crap in France, or Russia, with the locals, and see what happens.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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orangesporanges-
Good analysis of the situation. However, I can tell you from interviews I have done with Sherpas in Kathmandu, that they are just as annoyed by the free loaders on the ropes as the owners of the guide service are. It doesn't affect their pay one way or the other, but they object because the non paying rope users crowd the scene, sometimes need rescuing for free and thereby cheat Sherpas and clients out of summits, and perhaps the most frequent annoyance is that they brag they have climbed Everest independently all the while they used Sherpa route finding and ropes, and occasionally their oxygen and expertise to survive. They are essentially getting Sherpa services for free. Given the discrepancy in wealth, Sherpas fail to appreciate the dirt bag style.
One idea bandied about, is to force the free lancers to pay for a set number of Sherpas whether they use them or not.If Steck, Moro, and Griffith had helped pay the wages of Sherpas to fix the ropes, they would have been yelled at for crossing the ropes and knocking ice down, but that would probably have been the end of it.They would have made a contribution to the general climbing community even though they choose a different climbing style.
The Sherpas are very communal. Every family takes a turn at sponsoring a communal feast in the village temple. So that everyone can participate, the cheapest meal of millet porridge was the traditional requirement and even then some families had to save for years to pay for their turn. The Sherpas say, "it's good for even the richest to eat from the hands of the poorest". The rich meanwhile, vie with each other to sponsor the more expensive festivals. Generosity is supremely valued. Needless to say, foreign people owning thousands of dollars of equipment and spending thousands on plane tickets who then want to use ropes for free, or ignore the ropes and climb without them, are seen as antisocial and selfish. It's a basic clash of values.
And that was before at least one of the three climbers in question insulted the Sherpas and their mothers.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The Sherpa tried a mob-bullied approach.
This is a very misleading statement. It implies a thought-out plan, when there was none. The Sherpa were COMMANDED over the radio to congregate at a place, where they were to be soundly chewed out. It wasn't clear WHICH sherpa, so most available came. When a westerner came into physical contact with a sherpa, it was interpreted as an attack (which it was not), and they responded.
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MisterE
Social climber
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For sure there will be a Sherpas .vs Mountaineers video game out in the next year.
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gimmeslack
Trad climber
VA
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did i hear correctly that someone sh#t on fixed lines again - this time on everest?... sheesh.
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