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dirtbag
climber
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We're not hearing much about the Iran talks, either.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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... the President just got sucked into the scam by his corporate Conservative advisors.
First he's smart, now he's a sucker.
No, I think this is exactly what he wanted to do.
Don't get me wrong, I think Obama is the best "liberal" president we're had for quite some time. But Clinton passed NAFTA, and now we have another Dem in power who is pushing the can even farther down the road.
Good cop, bad cop. They all work for the corporations, from what I see.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Why do I feel that if there were "good parts," they would have published those for us to see?
Why all the secrecy?
I can't answer for Craig, but my own experience in 36 years of negotiating is that the give-and-take of negotiation does poorly when all of it is public. There's a reason the law makes settlement discussions privileged and not subject to introduction as evidence.
International trade almost always benefits both parties, as long as neither party is allowed to put their thumb on the scales. It is not a zero-sum game, any more than the economy as a whole is a zero-sum game, because specialization is productive.
The problem is that what constitutes "putting a thumbon the scale" depends on the viewpoint of the observer. What we might consider legitimate aid (for example, subsidizing sustainable energy technology, or providing financing for buyers of U. S. goods) could be viewed as cheating by a seller whose government does not provide those benefits.
Similarly, I wouldn't want to compete against a manufacturer whose government allows that manufacturer to pollute without charge or limit, or that allows that manufacturer to employ labor in oprressive conditions, etc.
The negotiations leading to the final forms of those issues will go more quickly if the negotiations remain private. Any resulting agreement still needs congressional approval, where all the details are out in the open. It's not like, say, the California Legislature where deadlines are used to force legislators to vote on bills whose content is only known by the lobbyists.
John
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Great post John.
Indeed. China owns the solar panel business mainly because they are able to produce them without much concern for the environmental side effects (and cheap labor); the US simply cannot be compete, their wholesale panel cost is below our production cost.
Hopefully the details will out, and we'll have the time to understand what is in the international trade agreements before congress needs to vote on them.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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We're not hearing much about the Iran talks, either.
There's a lot going on here. Kerry, breaking a leg, probably didn't help expediting things.
But Saudi Arabia and half of Yemen, are locked in a war. Big stuff, tank battles, Aircraft bombings of UNESCO sites, bombings of civilians etc etc. It's smothered by so much else going on in the world, but Iran is closely involved with the Houthis. So our "ally" Saudi Arabia, is locked in a war with a country we're negotiating with. It's gotta be awkward.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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China subsidizes their solar industry
America sucks money from the solar industry because the Fossil Fuel Industry has more money to buy off the politicians, and they don't want America using Solar because they're lost profits.
It's all about big money, Trillions of dollars are at stake, to hell with the green house gases! Screw the future, cash in now, burn every last drop and then we can worry about what to do.
We could be swimming in solar if our Country subsidized the industry at the same level as the oil companies, which get at least $4 billion in subsidizes per year.
Some states have even started taxing Solar just to make it less appealing to customers, all because of the Oil lobbyist pressure
Our Country is sooo F-ed up.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Just for clarity:
Yes China owns the inexpensive ,p.o.s.,cheaply made, undependable solar panel market.
It must be a west coast thing,because it is hard to find anything but US made panels and hardware over here.[unless you order the junk on the internet].
Dependable ,long lasting stuff of the top 5 producers are almost completely made here,including the racking and mounting hardware.Not to mention the wiring.They are the industry standard.
And Yes I am proud.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Big difference between eating honey and high fructose corn syrup Physiologically speaking? Yes, you are more likely to get botulism from honey than HFCS. Otherwise, no difference.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
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Flag flying over Havana...about time.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
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Flag flying over Havana...about time.
Dissidents still imprisoned. About time that ends.
John
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
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Vote all Republicans out, they have sold us out and have nothing but more destruction of our Country for profit.
Yeah, and that's why you'll vote for ANY Demoncrat, including the Hillabeast, who is SOOOOOO much better in this regard.
LOL
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
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Dissidents still imprisoned. About time that ends.
True, we've never recognized a regime that imprisons dissidents.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:26pm PT
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So, Crankster, how would you like to see Al Gore enter the process?
Perhaps to give Hillary some healthy competition honing the issues and what not.
Could be exciting, I think. :)
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:32pm PT
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
Dissidents still imprisoned. About time that ends.
True, we've never recognized a regime that imprisons dissidents.
If we just give it another 50 years then they will all be free.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
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Cragman, do you have amnesia? You must have forgotten the last Republican president left us with an economy on the verge of total collapse, the worst since the Great Depression. Oh yeah, and an administration asleep at the wheel on 9/11, invaded the wrong country searching for non-existent WMD, destabilizing the region that allowed ISIS to grow into the threat it is today.
That's the mess your guy left. How's life today for you? Economy doing better? Unemployment way down from the Bush debacle? Seen any planes flying into buildings? Are you aware Obamacare is a success? Are you aware congress won't shut down Gitmo?
I know one thing, you won't get over amnesia watching Fox.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
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Crankster, right on.
Cragman, at least Obama doesn't evoke a 2,000 year old Middle East mythology as part of his problem solving philosophy. Kudos for that.
Gotta grow up sometime, take reality as is and work from there.
There is some talk out there that Al Gore is pondering.
Where there's smoke there's fire?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:52pm PT
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There's a lack of enthusiasm for an establishment figure like her
Come ON! Call it what it is, if you dare.
But you can't dare, because everybody knows that the "establishment figure" is bought, sold, and paid for. Worse, she has NO interest in reforming what's really wrong with government and the whole election process! The Demoncrats WILL have the Hillabeast foisted off on them, and they WILL vote for the "establishment figure" rather than ANY Rebumblecon, even though they KNOW what she really is. Do you dare to honestly SAY what she really is? The vast majority of Americans (including Demoncrats) DO NOT trust her and think that she is a corrupt liar, because she IS. And the Demoncrats can't come up with BETTER than her?
What would be an interesting race, and one that would actually pit two very different ideologies, while getting past the flagrant corruption that IS the "establishment candidates" on both sides of the aisle, would be Trump vs. Sanders. Those are the only candidates at present that would not have deep "debts to pay" upon entering the White House.
Personally, I find even them both horrific in their own ways. Trump!?! I mean, get serious. And Bernie is a RADICAL socialist, although I respect him as a person VERY much and agree with some of what he says.
Look, give me Sanders, and you just might get me to vote Demoncrat... and that would be ON the idea that Bernie is one of the very few who is not "establishment" in all the sick, corrupt senses of that term.
But at least be HONEST with yourself about what you ARE going to vote for when you ultimately choose the Hillabeast!
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