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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 14, 2012 - 07:34pm PT
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/mike-huckabee-school-shooting_n_2303792.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#sb=888105,b=facebook
Mike Huckabee: Newtown Shooting No Surprise, We've 'Systematically Removed God' From Schools
Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee (R) weighed in on the massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn. on Friday, saying the crime was no surprise because we have "systematically removed God" from public schools.
"We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools," Huckabee said on Fox News. "Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?"
This line of reasoning isn't new for Huckabee.
Speaking about a mass shooting in Aurora, Colo. over the summer, the former GOP presidential candidate claimed that such violent episodes were a function of a nation suffering from the removal of religion from the public sphere.
"We don't have a crime problem, a gun problem or even a violence problem. What we have is a sin problem," Huckabee said on Fox News. "And since we've ordered god out of our schools, and communities, the military and public conversations, you know we really shouldn't act so surprised ... when all hell breaks loose."
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 14, 2012 - 07:37pm PT
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Anders,
no fair.
When these horrible events occur the anti-gun people come out of the woodwork.
The problem is hate and insanity not guns.
Its like losing your keys in the garage but looking for them in the living room because the light is so much better.
Don't call me insensitive because I'm not wringing my hands to your satisfaction while I defend my freedoms held responsibly.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
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Which state has the least gun deaths
I'm curious, which is it? Are you talking per capita?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 14, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Dec 14, 2012 - 07:44pm PT
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Don't try to argue with the gunnuts. They are insane. And they are mostly all members of the extremist group, the NRA. You can only defeat them at the ballot box.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dec 14, 2012 - 07:46pm PT
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I wonder if F*#kabee prays every night that little kids don't fall victim to such senseless violence. If he doesn't he is a hypocrite and there is blood on his hands. If he does, clearly god isn't listening. This is why I left the priesthood... it is way too easy to twist sh#t to fit whatever lie you want to promote. Religious "reasoning" is despicable.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 14, 2012 - 07:49pm PT
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Kind of like a photo of Werner on a thread about the kids of firefighters killed on 9/11
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 07:53pm PT
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Wow Phil, talk about injecting some serious insanity into the conversation as a way to try to brand your opponents here who share zero with that lunatic.
You guys feel pretty free to sling mud, don't you?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:20pm PT
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Right to the real point.
Killer Killed His Parents First
Parents first.
He then went to Connecticut to kill a woman he was involved with somehow -- whether wife or ex-girlfriend -- and also to kill all the children near her.
I think we were just talking a few weeks ago about a certain form of intensely narcissistic psychopathy that spurs people to kill everyone close to them rather than just taking the gentleman's way out of suicide. (I don't mean to give a nod towards suicide but if the difference is between killing yourself and murdering your whole family for your failures and inadequacies, let's put in a good word for suicide.)
I've said this before but I think the media can help reduce these things from occurring. These nutters see themselves heroically, sort of as bigger-than-life agents of mayhem and evil. Now that may sound like a bad thing to you, but it doesn't sound bad to them: They've embraced it.
And what Evil is usually described as, in popular mythology, which these guys are not, is potent and capable. Yes, Evil is horrible, but these guys are embracing it for the Power of it. Because they are failures and hopelessly inadequate in their own lives, they contrive a fantasy in which they become Dark Heroes -- larger than life and big as death -- by murdering a lot of people.
Obviously we have a debased value system here. But it does seem to me that that one thing they value and cherish is their self-conception of the Big Scary Man, who you should Take Serious Notice Of because he's Scary and Capable of Anything.
And a lot of media coverage tends to play this angle up. And I don't mean to knock the press too badly on this -- evil sells, and these people are evil.
However, I think it would do at least something to dissuade the next potential mass murderer to know, for example, that coverage on him will not focus on the Evil Menace part of him (which is a self-conception he finds flattering), but the Sad, Lonely Pathetic Guy Who Has a Small Dick and Couldn't Keep a Woman or a Job and Just Couldn't Hack It part of him. The part that's actually much more relevant to his crime -- masterful men do not have to kill people to let the world know "I exist" -- and the party that he's actually afraid of other people knowing about.
If I were the media, I'd allow myself to get very personal in publishing accounts of these guys. Personal, and nasty.
Rest of the article
http://minx.cc/?post=335690
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Gene
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:26pm PT
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How about this?
Before the extent of the carnage was known, we split ourselves into pro- and anti-gun and started screaming at each other. How about a moratorium on the politics of division and lets collectively and individually get off our soap boxes? Maybe a day or two of gun debate silence in memory of the kids and teachers lost today? Maybe join together and reflect on the loss of so many innocents? We can get ugly with each other about guns later. Go light a candle and cherish its light.
g
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:28pm PT
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Thanks' Gene
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:32pm PT
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I pray for the children, the parents and all of US.
Pure evil takes a human form.
No words can express my feelings.
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
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Well done Gene.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:35pm PT
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Thanks Gene. A voice of sanity.
I had a full on multi paragraph post ready but as I usually do I checked back in with the thread before posting. Saw you remark and, well, you're right.
It can wait.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:48pm PT
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In fact I would call it an insult to the victims past, present and future to simply sit back wringing hands while lamenting and mourning and crying out "why is this happening", but doing nothing about it. That is until the next horrid tragedy when the hand wringing can commence a new.
There are sites for mourning and condolences. I encourage everyone so moved to visit them and posit your deepest sympathies. However It is past time for a discussion on what can and should be done.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:51pm PT
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Thoughtful words from Gene but....as one who has experienced the loss of a child i can tell you that the first few days you are encapsulated in a cocoon of numbness, it gets much worse several days aftter the event.
Bob D. has a good point about the fact that gun lobbyists will use any tactic to delay thoughtful debate on gun issues....hell, one poster on ST mentioned chemtrails as a possible culprit.
When to start discussion, when to have a time out to grieve....?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:53pm PT
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Before events like this we are already split, mainly because one side chooses to forget the tragedies that go hand in hand with their perceived right to quick and easy gun ownership.
D'A is right. I feel for the families, no doubt it is tragic. But silence on an internet forum does nothing for the victims or their families. If you feel like being silent and it makes you feel better... sign off and be silent. You know what might help comfort those affected... knowing that the root causes of sh#t like this is being addressed: a culture of violence, self-interest, and outrageous fixation on easy access to guns.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 14, 2012 - 08:58pm PT
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A lot of factoids have been thrown around the thread along with way too much invective.
None of us can imagine the terror the living and dead children suffered. Nor how the survivors will suffer for the rest of their lives. How the HELL can anyone massacre children?
And how the HELL can this country continue to allow any citizen who chooses to buy a semiautomatic rifle? Without restrictions in many states.
Here is the raw data of rates of gun ownership and death by gun for major countries.
And the graph that correlates the two.
I researched and analyzed the data last year after the Cupertino mass murder.
The top correlation graph includes Mexico and Argentina which have unusual ratios of gun ownership to gun deaths. The lower graph omits Mexico and Argentina.
The blue line is the ratio of guns to gun deaths. Gun deaths include homicide, suicide and accidental.
You cannot claim there is no correlation.
And yes We're #1----WAHOO!!!
There are always outliers. Brevik in Oslo. A guy in England last year. The big events get the press.
Day to day more people die by firearm per capita in the US than in any other modern industrialized nation.
So by all means, tell me that essentially unrestricted access to gun ownership is good for our society.
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