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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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GOSH DANG IT!!!!
IM STANDING AND APPLAUDING U ALL !!!!
CHEERS ! I'm tipping aTecate up over my forehead with U all!
I've been trying to live the "responsable" life lately. Which meens less climbing. And more work. Or looking for work. But tuning into ST lately has been my greatest enjoyment! I've looked foward to reading what U people have written!I have to admit most of the time i feel like an atheist. Most of my time is spent living in the "world" where I feel void of God. I fill my head with numbers, and check lists, and money, and politics, and PTA. It's hard to hear God when that shites so loud. But when I'm reading His word, or talking about Him, or praying, or praising Him,
HE'S RIGHT THERE!!!
So; WE have enjoyed deliberating with U. The ONLY thing that could make it better. Is , if we could do this around a campfire, expecting to go climbing the.next day!
Cheers,
KEEP LOOKING UP!
BB
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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PRob said:
2) Among the many components of "the Debate" are the problems of good & evil and the genesis of Morality.
You still haven't dealt with my contention - A – theism has to work real hard to address these issues.
As a life long Atheist and active member of the American Society of Atheists, neither myself not any other Atheist I know, and I know many, has any problem at all with "addressing" the issues of good and evil and the morality.
Period.
And you, not being an Atheist, have no clue about how we deal with anything and you certainly don't speak for us, as you seem to be trying to do.
In fact, it is YOU, PRob, and other people like you in this regard, who actually "need" help dealing with good and evil and morality.
You NEED someone, a god, a religion, a "authority figure" to flat out tell you how to think and what to think, about good versus evil and morality
Atheists don't have that "need", we don't need "help" from anyone or any thing.
We are fully confident in making our own private logical and rational decisions.
You, collectively, need the authority figure to know what to believe, and so you buy into the fairy tale of the Big Guy in the Sky.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Werner, HAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHhHHHhHAAAABABA!
U SO FUNNY!
U CRACK ME UP!
BB
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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God Never Changes!
He's Always Is!
There's Nothing New To Him.....
Especially from outward pressure.
His Name Is IAM
IMO
BB
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Yea, I put Him in my mind. And He put Himself in my heart
IMO
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Already present from WHERERERERERRERERERE?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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John 4:7-10
This is what God Is!
From there ANYTHING is possible !
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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That's the TRUTH!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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I AM GOD
(That's the beauty of being an athiest, I can say those things and get away with it. Well.... maybe. Once I told chick that I was A GOD and she replied that I was dyslexic.)
I actually like God's name: G-O-D.
I love hearing chicks say his name over and over.
"Oh, God! Oh, God! Oh, God! OH, GOD! YES!!!!!!!!"
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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From the birds that sing, In the tallest trees.
To the human life, of you and me.
From the desert sands, to the place we stand.
He is God of all, He is Everything.
From the autumn leaves, that will ride the breeze
To the faith it takes, to pray and sing
From the painted sky, to my plank filled eye
He is God of all, He is everything
I'm giving my life to the only One
who makes the moon reflect the sun
Every starry night, that was His design.
I'm giving my life to the only One
who was and is and yet to come
Let the praises ring, 'cause he is everything
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Message to the true believer:
I want you to kill me.
Since I don't believe in your god (or any god for that matter) and because I actively speak regularly on the anti-virtue of the christian faith… Then I should be killed.
So, if you are a true believer you should kill me. And you should be proud to be doing gods work when you do so.
I'm asking for it. Feel free to follow your lord and savior and end my existence. After all I can be thought of as less than human in your worlds and you have the backing of your lord.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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No one wants to kill you Jingy, you kill yourself by what you say.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I think U want the "I like the muslim life" thread.
HAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHAAAABABA
Still Laffin
BB
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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what WHAT?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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P.Robb What is left – and many an honest atheist concedes to the fact – is that morality is an arbitrary false social paradigm enforced upon us, just another way for the Fittest to have their way to control the masses.
actually, you only believe that God is "something transcendent that it gives it value."
you cannot prove it... as such, your morality is "an arbitrary false social paradigm enforced upon us" by the church...
once again, you only believe...
to Ms. Hussar: the entire narrative of the New Testament directs us to consider the witness of miracles performed by a person, and the miracle of life after death of that person... as a fulfillment of prophesy. That that fulfillment is contested obviously isn't a part of the Bible, let alone the possibility that, over the 100 or so years of writing the books of the New Testament, a period during which parts were selected, the stories reported were far from the original sources.
Given that there is little argument that the New Testament was written by people, many of them, and heavily edited, one certainly has to take a bit of care in accepting it as evidence of anything.
Of course, you are free to believe anything you choose. And though it is a Christian attribute to evangelize, it is hard to understand why you take on that mission on the STForum... where you seem to pop in from time-to-time to opine on these topics related to Christianity, and little of anything else.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Remember, morals are only active when two or more people are gathered together. I see atheism as a way of secluding oneself from societall inclusion. Thus their morals usually pertain to the me, myself ,and I wisdoms
IMO
BB
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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^^^
Another clueless non-athiest
Why do the religious always try to vilify the non-religious?
Is it to make themselves feel better about the fact that they believe in bizarre ancient mythoogy?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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my general complaint to atheists is their failure to acknowledge their own belief systems.
and what is belief? i think it can be defined as the acceptance of something to be true that you have no way of knowing for sure on your own.
so--atheists "believe" that there is no god. there's a recent book by an atheist, god--the failed idea, which sounded interesting but, i have to say, didn't impress me. atheists generally close their minds. they have tight little systems of their own to market. they ignore huge bodies of important evidence, dismissing it outright because it doesn't "fit". how many times in history has that proven to be the fool's course?
that said, i think ed's comment, directed to others on this thread, should be directed to spider savage, the mother of all these recent pesky belief threads:
And though it is a Christian attribute to evangelize, it is hard to understand why you take on that mission on the STForum...
i challenged spider to put his own cards on the table, but he hasn't done it yet. he sent me a text message shortly after that--a good 2-3 weeks ago--saying that, yes, he would do so, but he wanted to choose his words carefully, as he does in prayer. i think he's had enough time to read through the thesaurus six or seven times.
bottom line, in all belief there is risk. the greatest comfort to such risk is the securing of "fellow travellers" who share your beliefs. every believer on the planet craves this. christianity seems to be laden with an ungraceful compulsiveness. it becomes its own worst enemy in trying to win believers, mostly because it has to try. rarely do christians speak with sincerity, from the heart. if they did, the world would be converted within a decade. atheists, on the other hand, are obviously battling things they've grown to hate. they really have no way of knowing whether there is a god or not, but if they admitted that, they would fall into the agnostic category, which isn't nearly as sexy.
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WBraun
climber
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khanom -- "the vast majority of the world's population do not believe in a "transcendent Moral law giver"
khanom, the man who's been all over the planet makes this assertion.
Or is it really you just Google around and then in your fertile mind start thinking .......
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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and what is belief? i think it can be defined as the acceptance of something to be true that you have no way of knowing for sure on your own.
interesting statement... as a scientist I'm open to theories regarding physical phenomena being provisional, and dependent on empirical evidence. Further, this evidence is reported with enough detail to allow independent confirmation, that is, someone else can build the same experiment up (or do the same observation) and see the same thing. Reproducibility.
Further, we use these empirical tests to eliminate theories, when those tests are consistent with the theories, we do not say that they "prove" the theories... consistent is what it says.
Therefore our theories are tested to the limits of accuracy and precision of the observations and experiments. This doesn't mean that big things aren't hiding in those error bars, the majority of stuff in the universe, the Dark Energy and Dark Matter, only have subtle interactions, so subtle that they largely hid in our observational error bars from the glimmering of their possibility (in the 1930s to the 1990s).
What does this have to say about morals?
I like to remind people that your morals are a measure of how well you adhere to your ethical system. It is interesting idea since it depends on the idea that we have a choice. In a given situation we get to choose what to do, we have free will.
Most philosophical and religious text will establish the "fact" of our free will immediately... since it is the most important concept regarding the establishment of an ethical system.
But the fact of free will is hardly established, and is certainly questionable in terms of empirical evidence. We've been around this block on various other threads, but here one might address why the "fact" of free will is so universally accepted. Without its absolute existence the idea of morality becomes a somewhat bankrupt notion.
I am open to the idea that our traditional concepts of "free will" may not be correct, especially upon the evidence from empirical studies that indicate our actions precede our awareness of them...
...my belief is that we can actually learn something from the scientific study of behavior which informs our concepts of morality. Modifying the notion of "free will" has a huge implication on this whole area...
...but notice that "god" wasn't mentioned in any of this... because "god" is not relevant to the discussion, in that sense, it is atheistic without a strong statement, that is, we can hope to understand life on Earth, and ourselves, without evoking supernatural causes.
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