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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jul 18, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
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It was mentioned that none of fattrad's "friends" warned him to cool it. Plenty of his non-friends did, some directly, some obliquely. And I'm not sure how a "friend" is defined here anyway.
Some of us who are politically diametrically opposed to fattrad have shared a drink, some food and a campfire with Jeff with laughs and only a little friction.
It's very disappointing that this thread has degenerated into name calling and back biting. We can argue for or against banning obnoxious (in the ears of the beholder) participants without getting nasty and obnoxious ourselves.
Or can we?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 18, 2012 - 01:28pm PT
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I do come off strong here regularaly.
No Bluering, you do not come off "strong". You come off as a weak, impotent little jerk, raging into the void with absolutely ZERO sense of self awareness.
You claim to "debate the facts" without seeming to understand what either of those words mean. You claim to be civil while starting post after post with "you idiots", "f*#k you" and similar. You, hilariously I would add, claim you don't call people faggots, only fags...as if there were a difference between those homophobic slurs.
You have proven over and over again that you are incapable of anything approaching an actual "debate". When confronted with facts, you fail to acknowledge them, misdirect, and start in with a line of questioning of the presenter of said facts. You continually play the victim card and claim to be misrepresented when confronted on your name calling, bigotry, homophobia, etc.
Let me propose an exercise for you: Print out your posts from these "debate" threads, in chronological order, without the intervening posts between them, i.e. just yours. Start at a point long enough ago that the specific posting isn't fresh in your mind, maybe at least a couple years back. Then read through them. If you do this exercise and don't see a pattern and a problem, then perhaps you are beyond help. But your pattern of behavior is so blindly obvious that even the most mild mannered among us who avoid this kind of commentary can't help but point it out (e.g. Anders).
You desperately need some self appraisal and reflection. "I will not take this"...well, whatare you going to do about it? As I said, your posturing is just impotent raging into the void. Good luck to you.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 18, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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I warned Fatty in a June 18th post on the Republican thread stating that I'd ban him permanently if I had the power (clearly I don't).
I've considered him my friend as well. Other friends warned him too. It didn't matter. Only one person is responsible for where he is and that is him. No one did this to him. He did it. Too bad. He'll be fine.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 18, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
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ECIYA, Crimpergirl, DMT (deleted post)
+10
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jul 18, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
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^ +3 (+10) ^
For The Cap In Your Ass.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1431937
(^ Take a look at the thread and see how it degenerates as bluey gets his afternoon drinking rollin'; he prolly passes out somewhere around 6:54 pm.)
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 18, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
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Nature said: "Jul 16, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
His last post:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1878602&msg=1878657#msg1878657
Are you proud of yourself fattard? Stalked him (Norton) so much he actually did leave."
Opps, wrong Nature. You can stop with the violin music:-) John (Norton) probably just stepped away from the computer for 3 min to piss while you posted that as he's posted 22 times alone on Dr F's "Republicans are as big of as#@&%es as democrats" thread since you posted that.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jul 18, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
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Take a look at the thread and see how it degenerates as XXXXX gets his afternoon drinking rollin' You have to wonder if this isn't a common problem on the political threads.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jul 18, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
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^^^^
Tru dat.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 18, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
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Opps, wrong Nature. You can stop with the violin music:-) John (Norton) probably just stepped away from the computer for 3 min to piss while you posted that as he's posted 22 times alone on Dr F's "Republicans are as big of as#@&%es as democrats" thread since you posted that.
oops,
actually, I DID "leave", and Nature was correct that that was my last post
Over the course of the following 20 hours, I received five emails from people asking me to reconsider and come back, that to leave would allow Fattrad to "win" in his effort to provoke me with his drug references enough to make me quit.
So, yes, I am back posting and yes it does feel good to not be stalked, thank you
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 18, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
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I received five emails from people asking me to reconsider and come back,
I was one of those people. Never good to see someone bullied and harassed to the point that it drives them away. Jeff went far beyond the pale on that, and has no one to blame but himself for the deactivation.
On the other hand, I'm still a firm believer in not hiding behind an avatar.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jul 18, 2012 - 03:11pm PT
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WB Norton. And thanks to your friends for the encouragement.
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nature
climber
SoSlo, CO
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Jul 18, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
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Thanks for the clarification on you "leaving", Norton.
welcome back.
I also sent a PM to Norton letting him know the coast was clear and his stalker was nixed.
couch wasn't the only one to doubt that fact.
What I find shocking is the fact that fattrad could harass and stalk Norton and fully acknowledge that he's doing it to make him leave (and succeeds!) and that is apparently OK with some. Meanwhile CMac takes control of the situation and whacks-o-mole on fattrad and people bitch that kicking people off the forum is somehow wrong.
I don't think it's funny or cute, when I re-post Ghost's thoughts. I'm trying to get Norton to leave, he is a coward, spineless and a troll.
TheTool
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 18, 2012 - 03:26pm PT
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^^^ +1 Ron. Agreed.
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John M
climber
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Jul 18, 2012 - 03:32pm PT
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What I find shocking is the fact that fattrad could harass and stalk Norton and fully acknowledge that he's doing it to make him leave (and succeeds!) and that is apparently OK with some. Meanwhile CMac takes control of the situation and whacks-o-mole on fattrad and people bitch that kicking people off the forum is somehow wrong.
this is my opinion too. I lost a lot of respect for a number of people on this thread. I will cut people a lot of stack. I don't mind the occasional cat fight. But once it becomes a pattern and the negativity continues even after they have been asked to stop.. then enough is enough.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Truckee , CA
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Jul 18, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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It all goes to accountability.
When people post under AVATARS they feel that they can get away with anything.
Regardless if they say that "everyone" knows who they are.
Their postings are very much anonymized from anyone searching the web with their true name as the subject.
If Jeff had to post under his true full name, like in Facebook, this probably would never be an issue.
For example, there are may websites that require you to login via your Facebook account to be able to post in comment streams.
This is not a cure-all but it has tamed things greatly on the sites that have implemented this.
If you want to engage in the banter on ST get ready to have this sort of thing go down.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jul 18, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
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I don't think so, Jeff put out his full name many times, even his address. It was clear who he was and that didn't keep him from being a bully.
Using your name may deter some people, not Fattrad.
Names are boring. I'd rather see "crimpergirl" or "graniteclimber" than a name.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 18, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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Didn't know any of that, welcome back Norton.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Jul 18, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
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Just when I was about to correct him [as usual] about his sources, this one with Wiki.
Wiki gets their information mixed up or incorrectly lists the wrong people in their published knowledge based for information. Run by volunteers so sometimes they get things wrong, no biggie. Still a source but need three or four others to make sure you get correct info.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 18, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
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No one changes or even modifies the views of others on political/religious threads.
Not always, Jim. Chiloe changed my mind on the climate change thread by respectfully leading me to relevant information that answered my concerns. I doubt that we can change many perspectives, particularly in those of us who developed those perspectives over many, many decades of observation, but I still hold out hope for changing conclusions, even if we reach them in different ways.
While I know I state the obvious, the rhetoric we use affects our ability to communicate with people having different perspectives. Asking for a fight never does, but demonstrating respect for the intellect and perspective of the audience sometimes does. For those interested in these sorts of things, I recommend Shaping Science With Rhetoric by Leah Ceccarelli. (In the spirit of full disclosure, Leah is the daughter of my wife's first cousin.)
When I sense the fight-picking rhetoric heating up (which, as High Traverse points out, is often as the evening approaches and wears on), I usually stay away from commenting because then, I assume that the comments have only cathartic goals. I have more effective means of achieving catharsis than insulting my ST opponents. Often, though, the discussion was constructive, and both Jeff and Norton engaged in that constructive dialog.
I've been disinclined to comment on this thread because I find the whole episode too painful. I appreciate Jeff's serious, and many of his put-on, comments, but winced at what he said about Norton. I say this not only because I admire Norton, and value both his comments and his presence here, but because we should not treat people that way, period. I felt the same way about the seeming hate campaigns against LEB and several others. I wish I had tried to do something more to try to contain it, and feel somewhat responsible for not weighing in more strongly before. It comforts me, however, to see that many others feel the same way.
I know -- and frankly I hope -- that we aren't going to sit around a campfire singing "Kum Bay Ya." The jesting and poking will continue. Those of us who express unpopular opinions expect that, and some of us even think the world would be much impoverished if we cut it all out. Still, it encourages me to see that lots of people don't buy the "anything's fair on the internet" behavior we sometimes see.
Sorry for the rambling.
John
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Jul 18, 2012 - 05:06pm PT
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So It's not ok to call Norton a drug addict, but it's cool to call blue an alcoholic over and over. You guys are funny.
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