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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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At what level and to what degree a President is supposed to consult congress if at all in a situation like this I am not at all clear on. I suspect the law is a bit murky in this situation and probably even contradictory.
If congress has a serious issue with it they should take it up in due process. I suspect 20 lawyers could come up with 20 different legal opinions on either side of the argument.
My basic opinion is that The president is given fairly broad powers under war to make military decisions. This action was almost entirely military except in dealing with third parties negotiators via the state dpt I would guess.
I don't see much valid traction likely in pursuing legal action on behalf of congress. However I am not by any means expert on these issues.
Most importantly Obama upheld a critical military code of "leave no man behind". If he ventured into legal "gray area" to do so I would say he had a duty to go as far as legally possible.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Blundy is an idiot, and did nothing good.
Obama is not an idiot, and did the right thing.
You support law breakers Ron, what's the big deal? BWA HA HA HA hahahahaaaa!!!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Why is a deserter worth five terrorists?
And why is he not in the brig? The fact that he is not, as far as I know
(and I admit to not following this very closely), seems to be in violation
of the UCMJ, not that I am an expert on that.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Chief,
"Panama institute" Before I respond just need to know exactly what you mean by this "Institute" want to make sure we are talking about the same place, there were other Air Force base and military ones in Panama you have that right guess that last one I gave you was easy.
As for the potato chips, I agree it costing me a lot of money since I don't even eat them.
Warbler A+
WMD? Lies, lies, lies from the right wing to achieve a political agenda. Lies believed by the party faithful and even some sane people for years and now known by to be purely BS/propaganda.”
John Duffield A+
"Fifty percent of my unit - the guys at my level, not the lifers - were drafted. A huge differential in the quality of the soldiers. Draftees scored better at everything.
Not only that, ALL of the suicides were RAs. None drafted."
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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The is one of the 20 legal opinions possible. As I said there is likely much contradictory law in this situation. Let Congress take the Admin to court if they really want to support leaving POWs behind.. I suspect the Supreme Court would have difficulty sorting it out.
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Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
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Heads up survival, I think Philo hacked your account
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I am re-posting in the sincere hope that I get an adult answer or two:
Why is a deserter worth five terrorists?
And why is he not in the brig? The fact that he is not, as far as I know
(and I admit to not following this very closely), seems to be in violation
of the UCMJ, not that I am an expert on that.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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NO IT'S NOT!! NYAH NYAH NYAH!!!
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Classic...... back to work.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Why is a deserter worth five terrorists?
And why is he not in the brig? The fact that he is not, as far as I know
(and I admit to not following this very closely), seems to be in violation
of the UCMJ, not that I am an expert on that.
I agree it sounds like he should be facing court martial.
But even if found guilty and imprisoned He was more important than those we released.
Why? because he was ours. WHy because our soldiers must KNOW that we will never give up on them under ANY circumstances. From this case future POWs will be able to know (or at least have good hope)in their darkest moments that if Bowe was brought home then for sure they will be too. This has real ramification on a POWs ability to uphold the code of conduct the are required to fulfill if captured.
This has real impact on the morale and effectiveness of our whole exceptional fighting force
To me it comes down to something even more basic.. It is part of a worthy code of honor. One worth risking ones life for. One I deeply believe in and even as a civilian hold in my core. Why I volunteer in Rescue. I beleive rescuing one is worth risking more. Not suicidally but reasonabl;e risk. The Taliban released are merely a risk.. the man we saved is concrete reality.
This is a little outdated but not much different than the current version of the code of conduct for POWs. Serious stuff and worthy of consideration by anyone joining the military.
Code of Conduct for Members of the United States Armed Forces
I
I am an American fighting man. I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
II
I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender my men while they still have the means to resist.
III
If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
IV
If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
V
When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am bound to give only name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
VI
I will never forget that I am an American fighting man, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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And Avery wonders why supertopo is so fukking awesome?
I also agree that Bergdahl will probably face trial, and then the music, but I am incredibly glad that this wasn't left up to ron and the cheef.
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John M
climber
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I think that stuff you posted about the so called terrorists is total bullshit and made up by someone. Not one single reputable news source quotes it. All of the sources use exactly the same wording but don't quote a source. They jus say it as though it is true. I could not find one example of the united nations making a complaint. So I call bullsh#t.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I totally agree they did the right thing. It's the timing that is interesting.... everyone knew lots more than is let on. THe politics is covering up what's really happening, and mass media is being used as a tool. What is really going on most of us will probably never know
It may not be clear to others, but to me it is fairly clear that the POW had developed life-threatening medical problem.
Far be it from me to suggest that any person has any right to privacy about their medical conditions, but I believe that he does, and I don't think they will be discussing them specifically without his permission.
I believe the swap was effected because the Taliban understood that if he died in their custody, there would be hell to pay......although you wonder if the Taliban-lovers like Rong would have supported that, or would even have taken his body?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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climbski2. < I agree with this guy. Lead by example at a minimum. If there is the evidence, time for a trial.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Rong fights against bringing back a POW.
I don't know if the President broke a law in deciding to bring him home, but if he did, I fully support that. Rong's friends in Congress would have taken 6 months, and 6 hearings to shake in their boots about making a decision.
And Rong still hasn't answered why this is so bad for us, but the Israeli's do this ALL THE TIME....and you don't hear him saying they don't know how to deal with POW swaps.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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How was he a POW? He deserted, no ifs ands or buts.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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A deserter is still on active duty until discharded lawfully.
Beyond that I would feel the same way for any individual of allied nationality civilian or military.
It is part of the core of my beliefs.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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A deserter is still on active duty until discharded lawfully.
Yeah, so what? Let him stay on duty with the phukking Taliban.
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