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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Jul 26, 2011 - 06:17pm PT
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That was very interesting Max.
Max Jones-from Mtn. Bike Hall of Fame list.
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Jul 26, 2011 - 07:35pm PT
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Thanks for the post Max.
It's hard for me to believe that the world's best are not the world's best, doping or not. I agree that it's good for cycling to have a Tour where no-one was caught cheating.
It's sad to me that sometimes, the more information we have about reality, the more we're disappointed by it, and think that reality is wrong, and should be different.
I hope that I can always enjoy watching the Tour.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 26, 2011 - 10:53pm PT
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I remember the great Jim Erickson saying "that most great climbs have been done with somewhat dubious means".
Seems to carry over to most sports.
These guys are under somewhat tense conditions to win...must take most of the "fun" out of it.
This year was one of the best tours (almost 40 years) I have ever followed.
It was fun to watch and I think the good guy won...I could be wrong.
Max...don't know if you remember but we met in the Gunks in 1977...I bought a Strawberry swami and chalk bag from you.
Hope all is well?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 27, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
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Thanks Max for a good post.
I have a good friend who is world-famous bio-chemist and head of R&D for one
of the world's biggest drug companies. He is also a cyclist. When the Landis
affair was going on he said that the whole testing regimen was highly suspect
and that the lab where Landis' samples were 'done' was just that. He said
their protocols were a joke.
On a cheerier note here's a nice article on the first American in Paris, so to speak.
Oops, I went to find the article that was in the LA Times last
Saturday and I guess they didn't save it. Bummer.
Oh well, cheers to Jonathan Boyer! Is it a coincidence he has a french name?
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Jul 27, 2011 - 03:28pm PT
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Nice Rob, I brought it over.
Tour de France Rule #5 Award: Johnny Hoogerland
by frank / Jul 24 2011 / 120 posts
Not an absolute; the beauty of Rule #5 is the graduated scale upon which it is measured. Rule #5 means to push yourself beyond the signals your body sends to stop what you’re doing, usually with ever-increasing urgency. It means to disobey reason and to surpass physical boundaries previously considered impassable. This is why Rule #5 stands apart: it is measured upon a personal scale; not against others, but against the very limits of your own mind and body.
In a tradition started last year, the Velominati hand out the Rule #5 Award to the rider whom we feel most embodied the spirit of Rule #5 during the hardest race of the year, Le Tour de France. By overwhelming consensus, the community has identified Johnny Hoogerland as the most deserving winner this year; as such, we present him with this humble award for fighting through one of the most gruesome crashes any of us can recall.
Brett’s Take:
In New Zealand, there’s a saying that “you can fix anything with Number 8 fencing wire” It means that no matter how hard the task, a bit of elbow grease and determination – not to mention ingenuity – can solve the problem.
But not even Number 8 wire is a match for the guts shown by Johnny Hoogerland on Stage 9 of the Tour de France. In fact, barbed wire fences lining the roads of Europe will be cowering at the thought of Johnny catapulting towards them, laying waste to their pitiful attempts to force him to abandon. #8 wire? Pffft… It’s Rule #5 wire where Johnny’s concerned.
Chapeau Johnny, you are a true hardman of cycling and a deserving winner of the Rule #5 Award. Enjoy a cold one after laying down The V.
Frank’s Take:
How do you single out one rider as ‘the tough guy’ in a race where 200 racers participate in 21 days of racing nearly back-to-back, over the highest mountains in all kinds of weather? How do you single out one rider in a race where a 3-hour 100km Stage raced a bloc over the Telegraph, Galibier, and up l’Alpe d’Huez figures as a “short” stage? How do you pick out one rider in a race lasting more than 86 hours fought out by competitors so tough and closely matched that the time differences are measured in fractions of minutes, not fractions of hours?
How do you pick out one rider when each stage saw riders risk their lives descending at 80kmh (or more) on melting or rain-slick tarmac? How do you pick out one rider when you see a GC contender throw caution to the wind in a do-or-die 60km break over the most difficult climbs in the world in a Hail Mary attempt to win the Tour? How do you pick one rider when you see a heroic effort to bring back that same man and singlehandedly drag him within reach? How do you pick out one rider in a race where sprinters won mountain stages and rouleurs fought for the Maillot Verde? How do you pick one rider in a race where the strength of the adversaries defines the quality of the winner?
I’ll tell you how: You pick the guy who catapulted into a rusty barbed-wire fence at 65 kmh because a man driving a car for the media decided his job was more important than that of those doing the racing. You pick a guy who was robbed of the chance to win a stage and go on to defend the Dotty Jumper by a driver who was ordered by race officials to pull over not once, but twice in order to make way for the team cars. You pick the guy who goes on to laugh it off, suggesting the driver didn’t mean him any harm. You pick the guy who did all that and not only finished the stage within the time limit, but managed to take the Polkadot Jersey that day and hold it for a few more. You pick the guy who, after he received dozens of stitches in addition to the damage done when you come off a bicycle at such speeds (it’s not the falling off that is the problem, but the quick stop afterwards that is), went on to finish every other stage and even get into several more breakaways along the way.
Johnny, it’s hardmen like you who make this sport so incredible and remind us that it’s not just the man who stands on top of the podium at the end of the day who is tough. It’s the fact that they beat riders like you, riders who can endure more hardship than most of us can comprehend that makes this such a great sport. You remind us that there is a reason we dub the men who finish the Tour de France Giants of the Road. As a fellow Dutchman, it is my profound pleasure to offer you the well-deserved Rule #5 Award. I hope you allow yourself a beer or two. Cheers.
Posted in: The Hardmen / The Rules
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Jul 27, 2011 - 06:47pm PT
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Thought this was an interesting read.
Came from cyclingnews.com
Just for fun, lets not turn this into a sh*tstorm. There's enough of that going on this site at the moment. It's just one ex pro dude's opinion and some interesting insight into this year's Tour favs.
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Why Evans beat the Schleck brothers
Four crucial areas where the Australian came out on top
by Robert Millar
So why did Cadel Evans win this year's Tour de France over the Schlecks? Leopard Trek had the two of them to use tactically. They had numerous mountaintop finishes suited to their climbing abilities more than the gutsy Australian. On paper, the new team looked a stronger unit than BMC. There was even less time trialling than usual for the brothers to worry about. So what went wrong?
Well maybe that's not quite the right way of asking the question, because when you finish second and third, not that much went wrong. I think it's better to ask, what did Cadel do right that Andy and Fränk Schleck didn't quite match?
1. Take the responsibility of being a favourite and act accordingly
Straight from the start and all through the first week, Evans and BMC rode at the very front of the peloton, staying out of trouble, avoiding the inevitable crashes and looking out for opportunities to take time on their rivals. A couple of seconds here and there might not seem much but psychologically it becomes important.
The Schlecks managed to position themselves much better than they have done previously. Having Fabian Cancellara, Jens Voigt and Stuart O'Grady to look after them was a major bonus, but it still seemed that they struggled more with the constant demand of being at the front, fighting, holding their place. It wasn't a major difference, but at certain moments they had to move up from too far back and that waste of energy was something which Evans avoided more successfully.
A big part of peloton etiquette is establishing your right to be at the front of the bunch, earning respect so the others know that's where they'll find you and you won't be giving up that place easily. BMC put their man in that position from the off and kept him there continuously.
2. Take advantage of every situation
Cadel looked for the opportunity, the chance to take time, while the Schlecks looked like they were trying to avoid losing it. It's a subtle difference, but again in the mental game it puts them on the back foot and then the doubts perhaps start developing.
Evans showed that he was ready to fight all day every day and he showed he was strong and not afraid to commit himself. The Schleck brothers didn't quite come across as being willing to race every situation. They always seemed to be defending even when they were in front of Evans. There was always a feeling that they did not have enough time in hand to be safe.
3. Skills
Uphill? No problem, the Schlecks do that as good as anyone, only Contador is better. Coming down the other side, however, it doesn't look comfortable. As a weakness, descending is probably their most obvious one, particularly in the wet and other riders are always going to exploit that.
Their time trialling isn't good enough either. Despite talk of specific training, it still needs more work. Their positions aren't as good as they could be and they don't look powerful on the TT bike. Cadel, on the other hand, has no problems downhill or going around wet corners, and he looks like he's done the hours on his TT bike as he looks much more comfortable, being aerodynamic and strong.
4. Tactics
Andy Schleck's epic attack to win on the Galibier was probably the most dramatic part of this year’s GC battle. Definitely an historic moment but for all the glory it wasn't enough to win him the overall race. Why? Because Andy and Fränk Schleck needed to put Evans under that kind of pressure whenever they had the chance.
For example, in the Pyrenees when they ought to have been attacking relentlessly to distance their rivals, they either couldn't or wouldn't, in case Contador countered them. What with the constant looking around to see what the other brother was up to, they seemed more frightened of what the Spaniard might do rather than just getting on with trying to win the race.
The moments where we saw them riding next to Contador and giving him the evils were never going to be anything other than a complete waste of time. The guy has won three Tours, a Giro and a Vuelta, he's not going to be scared by playground antics. When they did commit themselves, it was too little and too late in the stages so the gain wasn't great.
By the time they reached Alps it was obvious they had to do something special, hence Andy's great escape from 60km out. Of course that put BMC in trouble, but Fränk needed to mess up Cadel’s chase by attacking also and causing changes in the pace. As it was, when Cadel had to ride to limit the losses, it was sidewind and steep so it wasn't that easy to follow.
Contador’s attack on the Col du Télégraphe the next day was another chance to do something about gaining more time. If Fränk had been able to stay with Contador and Andy then they could have sacrificed him to distance Evans, or when Voeckler and Evans were dropped halfway up the first mountain, Andy could have done a minimum to help Contador and encouraged him to really push on. He had five minutes to play with over the Spaniard, so even if he lost time to him on the Alpe d'Huez, it wouldn't have been dramatic. They could even have waited for Voeckler when he was in between the groups, then Europcar wouldn't have chased and BMC would have been isolated again.
As an aside, quite what the yellow jersey wearer thought he was doing in no-man’s land was beyond me, his DS needed to either tell him to wait for his teammates in the chasing group behind or talk to the Saxo Bank guys about getting Contador to knock off the pace and let him get up to the front. If that had happened and they all rode in the front until the base of the last climb then there might have been a panic at BMC. As it was, Voeckler lost his podium place by continuing to chase on his own for too long.
Cadel Evans was probably lucky to have a mechanical and end up with his teammates to chase back on, or else he was very wise not to go too far into the red trying to stay with the younger Schleck and an angry Contador. Choosing instead to stay calm-ish and wait for the final fight on the Alpe would have needed a confident person. By the time they were on the last climb, everyone was tired and the Schlecks couldn't distance Evans, who quite rightly refused to collaborate in the chase of Contador.
They might have been one and two on GC that night, but despite talking themselves up, the Schlecks knew the lead wasn't enough . Cadel ate them both in the TT because he knew the course from having done it at the Dauphiné and he knew he was anywhere between a minute and a half to two minutes better than them on that course and he rode it with that confidence.
In the end, confidence was probably the difference. The whole race, Cadel Evans looked like he was riding to win the Tour, while the Schleck brothers looked like they were trying not to lose.
About the author: Robert Millar
Robert Millar was one of the last pure climbers of the Tour de France, winning several stages in the mountain stages and finishing fourth overall in 1984. He is also the only English speaker to have ever won the prestigious polka-dot jersey climber's competition jersey.
Millar retired in 1995 but has continued to follow the sport closely. He was often critical of the media and quickly cuts through the excuses and spin to understand why and how riders win and lose.
He will be writing an exclusive comment for Cyclingnews during the Tour de France.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Jul 27, 2011 - 10:34pm PT
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Robert Millar
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 27, 2011 - 10:47pm PT
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Dee Eee...Evans has more miles in his legs than both the schlecks together...I'm guessing that when the schlecks physically mature they will have the success that Evans had in the grand tour...Also Andy worked himself over when he attacked 37K's out on the stage that he won...And there was a inter- team conflict happening between the schelcks and Cancellara arguing over who was really Spartacus....No , I'm Spartacus...!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 27, 2011 - 11:35pm PT
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The tour is a beautiful event, can't wait for next year. I'm kinda bummed in the morning as I am still waking up at 6AM.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 28, 2011 - 12:20am PT
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Thanks Dave. With all the other incredible things going on, JH's ride should not be forgotten.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 28, 2011 - 12:34am PT
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Robert Millar supposedly lived off of Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches...He was also a domestique for greg lemond on team Z when LeMond last won the tour...? Great footage of team work by Millar pulling Le Mond..
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 28, 2011 - 12:35am PT
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Max...What drugs were Mark " the stork " Roberts on...?
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m_jones
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Jul 28, 2011 - 12:49am PT
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Um, yea, Chief said -
"Thus another individual that acknowledges....."
NOT WHAT I SAID.
LA was the right guy with the right vision, the right motor, at the right time with the right organization and focus on ONE race. Others in the same situation with a similar motor would have done as well.
Professional bike riders are incredibly tough and faster on a bike than most anyone outside the sport can or will ever imagine.
Even LA was quoted saying that the best athlete in the field was Ulrich. Not him.
My point was that it is highly likely that he and his team played by the rules set by the UCI on any given year. To great success in that race.
I am thinking that he did not get the memo to play by your rules.
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shady
Trad climber
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:25pm PT
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Bob D'a, Don't despair. I know it's not the tour but...
The tour of Utah is supposed to be on Fox sports.
The USA cycling challenge will be carried by Versus.
The Vuelta will be shown on Universal sports.
All of their web sites show major teams, but who will represent those teams is still up for speculation.
Cheers!
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:15am PT
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I always believed that Armstrong only raced the one tour so that he could stay out of testing for the rest of the year. Eventually the rules were changed to stop this practice.
And for all you "never failed a test" guys remember back a couple of seasons ago with year round testing the rule, Armstrong comes back from a ride to find a tester there. By rule he has to immediately give a sample without leaving the presence of the tester. Armstrong refuses, has his "assistants" hold the guy outside his house while he dissapears inside for half an hour. Finally comes back outside to give the sample.
Actually did fail a test as well, but got a doctor to give him a retroactive prescription for it. Cycling has incredible loopholes for legally being doped. Most people don't realize that but think about guys that ride half the race with a broken bone or super bad road rash? The race marshalls have huge discretion in allowing painkillers, anti-inflammatory steroids, etc...
What always really amazed me about the guy is that his cancer was very likely the result of all his early doping, and he still kept doing it. How many chances did he think he'd get?
Somewhere upstream some guy made the comment he didn't care, it wasn't killing anyone. The reason they have the hemacrit test was an answer to the numbers of heart attacks guys were having. Dudes would start out with thse super high hematcrit levels, maybe accidentally get a little dehydrated, and they wind up with this sludge their hearts can't pump. There was sort of an epidemic a while back concentrated on the super-domestiques who have to do most of the work.
I never cheated when I raced, and I always wondered about the guys that did. What exactly did they think they won? That applies to every sport, too. Can you envision Vince Lombardi cheating? Because personally I can't.
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Tradboy
Social climber
Valley
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:39am PT
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There is no proven link between doping and cancer, nice try though. This WAS a great thread on the 2011 TdF. Why a few of you have to always turn it into an LA bashing thread is beyond me. Get over it.
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Alpinist63
Mountain climber
Schleck-Country
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Jul 29, 2011 - 03:24am PT
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very interesting post from steelmnkey , Millar gives a good analysis of this years tour. one could maybe add that it wasn't just a race between evans and the schlecks from beginning on, during the first 2 weeks, and even till after the galibier, contador was considered by many to be the strongest rider in the field, so the schlecks were focusing quite a bit on him which turned out to be a mistake....but two brothers on the podium in paris, that's cool.
by the way, the schlecks will be in colorado by the end of august for the one week race.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 29, 2011 - 08:14am PT
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Several young dutch riders died in the late 80's from heart attacks with EPO being the suspect...
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shady
Trad climber
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Jul 31, 2011 - 06:27pm PT
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The tour of Utah's getting close.
Last Tuesday, a funny sight to see. A pair of Liquigas riders were climbing to the roads summit near Bald mt (Alt 10,700ft) from the west side, and a pair of Radio shack riders, nearly the same distance from the summit, climbing from the East side. Both pairs looked gassed, but I'd imagine when they caught sight of each other on the summit they started dancing on their pedals, trying to look as fresh as the pine scented air they were riding in. "Psych!" :D
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