Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2010 - 08:33pm PT
|
I thought this was settled.
Some science guy on TV said the video does not show an accelerating unit.
A missile accelerates.
Therefore, it is not a missile.
Why does it always have to presumed to be some big deal when it is not?
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2010 - 08:43pm PT
|
Klimmer....that is long beach harbor...
|
|
Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2010 - 09:09pm PT
|
Glenn - you called a "colleague in the science department who is from L.A"?
EDIT: Ah I get it. When I first read that I incorrectly thought that Glenn had called some authority in LA in the "science department". It reminded me of the old NPR "Ask Mr. Science" where Mr. Science proclaimed at the end of the show "and I have a Master's Degree..... in Science!". But, my bad here. Poor reading comprehension on my part.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2010 - 11:28pm PT
|
hey Klimmer, try this out too!
for a round earth (can we all agree that the earth is a globe? or do we have some flat-earth-conspiracy buffs participating?)
the horizon's distance in miles is the square root of your altitude in feet (this is a homework problem for you numerate participants, Tony, don't feel bad if you can't derive it, take it from me, it's true).
commercial jets fly around 40,000' which would mean you can seem them about 200 miles off... then they disappear below the horizon (so they look like they are coming out of the ocean, or going into the ocean)....
the helicopter's altitude? probably not much more than let's say 2500 feet? which has a horizon of about 50 miles.. we get to add that to the aircraft... so from the helicopter, in the right light, you might see the aircraft contrail out 250 miles.... at 600 miles per hour this takes about 25 minutes... with a 100 mph jet stream, the end of the contrail would displace about 41 miles, or 0.164 radians, which is about 10º and curve back to the current trajectory...
this time of year there are strong winds coming from the WSW (the "Pineapple Express") and an aircraft laying a contrail down coming from the West will have something that looks like a curving path out of the ocean...
...with clear meteorological conditions, and backlighting, from a sun set... sounds plausible to me...
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 12:40am PT
|
The atmosphere also causes severe refraction distortions when you observe something within less than about 10 degrees above the horizon. That is why you can see the disk of the sun later than the calculated time of sunset. Celestial navigation requires taking this into account.
|
|
nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 12:43am PT
|
for Klimmer to claim that anyone one is tossing bull dung is laughable.
oh the irony....
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 03:36am PT
|
Ok, just talked to a colleague in the science department who is from L.A. and he thinks the landmass is Palos Verdes and the helicopter is looking WNW (edit: actually WSW at 240 degrees) across Long Beach Harbor. Then we looked at Google Earth from an oblique perspective near the surface of the Harbor and it looks pretty much the same.
Anyone want to disagree with this assessment?
MB asked . . .
Glenn - you called "colleague in the science department who is from L.A"?
No. I walked down the hall and asked him personally. He is from L.A., as in he grew up there. C'mon Dr. Bolte, geeeeeeeeeeees. Can I get a break?
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 07:08pm PT
|
Ok, just as I suspected. The missile exhaust/vapor plume is back-lit by the setting Sun.
I will place a line on Ed's wonderful Google Earth graphic showing the missile test zone or region when I have a chance later, but it does indeed fall within the Southern portion of the missile test region. I wanted to first prove that the exhaust/vapor plume is going up at a steep angle to the W - WNW, and with stereo vision I have.
The bottom of the exhaust/vapor plume is closer to the observer, and the top of the plume is further away to the West.
Unless of course, jets now launch out of the Pacific Ocean with a flaming engine and then spirals clock-wise during the ascent. If it is a jet, then we might want to go looking for it as it likely fell into the Pacific Ocean with all onbaord. (Sarcasm)
Ladies and Gentleman it is a slow ascending and clock-wise spiraling missile.
All images taken from this copy of the original video footage shot by KCAL:
Raw Video: Mystery Missile Appears over Southern California. Helicopter CAM "no audio"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAZLYn44FeQ&feature=related
'video shot by a KCBS/KCAL Cameraman Gil Leyvas News helicopter in Los Angeles that shows an object shooting across the sky and leaving a large contrail, or vapor trail, over the Pacific Ocean. Pentagon Can't Explain 'Missile' Off California Coast.
"Whatever it was, it was spinning up into the sky kind of like a spiral," and was easy to distinguish from condensation trails from jets, he said. "It was quite a sight to see. It was spectacular" said the cameraman.'
Stereogram man to the rescue!!!!!!!
Ladies and Gentleman please put your stereoscopes on . . .
May I sugggest Pokescope if you do not have a pair:
http://www.pokescope.com/
|
|
monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 07:43pm PT
|
Klimmer previously claimed:
So we have proved that the exhaust/vapor plume of the missile launch on 11-8-10 was in the heart of the missile launch area just off the West Coast coast of Pt. Conception, West of Vandenburg AFB in the Pacific Ocean
So epic fail Klimmer, even you know now it did not come from the 'heart' of the test zone. You debunked yourself!
There's no doubt that the flight could have crossed the southern most part of the permanent zone.
What's your freakin point? If a flight crosses the zone that may be impacted by a test, the controllers give them a new course.
Just like mariners who enter the zone are instructed to call the controlling authority. No big deal.
BTW, that's not Palos Verdes, unless they call San Pedro, Palos Verdes. The real Palos Verdes area is about 7 miles up the coast.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 08:37pm PT
|
Where did it come down?
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 08:45pm PT
|
Klimmer's fantasies about the "missile" seem almost Freudian.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 09:25pm PT
|
seems more likely to be a jet to my mind...
the dispersion on the part low on the horizon would take time to happen, which is what you have if its a jet, a missile gets up and out really fast...
the "test range" takes up most of the air approaches to LAX and the LA area, as well as the sea lanes... almost anything is going through that box on the way in...
you guys are having some truly demented fantasies if you think that's a missile...
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 09:30pm PT
|
Klimmer previously claimed:
So we have proved that the exhaust/vapor plume of the missile launch on 11-8-10 was in the heart of the missile launch area just off the West Coast coast of Pt. Conception, West of Vandenburg AFB in the Pacific Ocean
So epic fail Klimmer, even you know now it did not come from the 'heart' of the test zone. You debunked yourself!
There's no doubt that the flight could have crossed the southern most part of the permanent zone.
What's your freakin point? If a flight crosses the zone that may be impacted by a test, the controllers give them a new course.
Just like mariners who enter the zone are instructed to call the controlling authority. No big deal.
BTW, that's not Palos Verdes, unless they call San Pedro, Palos Verdes. The real Palos Verdes area is about 7 miles up the coast.
Mono,
It is a matter of scale. Even those who live in L.A. know the Peninsula as Palos Verdes, the entire Peninsula. Yes, San Pedro is at the North End of the Long Beach Harbor.
See one of the many differences between me and you is that I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. I admitted that Friday.
However, it was also based on Bull Dung that you posted. Recall the 2 different GOES animations you first posted? The one has a polygon clearly drawn around the Cirrus cloud formations moving to the SE.
I assumed they were correct. They were not. But let's be clear. You were the first one to post that misinformation and I fell for it without checking it first.
You are very dishonest.
I have proven that the exhaust/vapor plume is going from the surface of the ocean upward to the W - WNW. I have the stereograms to prove it and I provided them to you. I can even prove it came from the direction of the Missile Test Zone.
The base of the plume is closer to you the viewer. The top of the plume is further away to the W - WNW and the entire exhaust plume is back-lit by the setting Sun.
You'll have to view it in 3D to know, but I provided it for you. There is no doubt it was a missile.
Now let's see if you can man-up and admit you are wrong.
Probably a snowball's chance in Hades waiting for that to happen . . .
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 09:33pm PT
|
Ed,
You better get a stereoscope and start viewing.
To everyone,
You all assume missiles have to be fast. They do not.
How many of you have shot a Dragon Gun or a Tow Missile?
I have. US Army 11Bravo Infantry, Dragon Gun Expert qualified.
You shoot that shoulder mounted "missile" where ever you want it to go, tracking a jeep, tank, armored personnel carrier whatever and it goes and follows it as it flies down range. It is wire guided. You can watch it go down range. Fast but not incredibly so. You can see it tracking and continually making coarse corrections when tracking the target. And it leaves an exhaust trail.
Tow missiles are just over-sized Dragon Guns mounted on a stand. Same thing really.
You have everything from Dragon Gun Missiles to ICBMs, and everything in between. You can make missiles that go slow. No problem.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m47-dragon.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW
|
|
nick d
Trad climber
nm
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 09:47pm PT
|
Missle....Going into a tunnel................
did someone say Freudian?
Pretty sure that was WeldMeHarder tuning up for his K duece run.
Prob some high-tech gear that welds his freeze dried food in 1/2 the normal time.
If you asked nice Klimmer you could probably go and be one of his sub-men. Forget this conspiracy bull and get back into the great outdoors!
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 09:48pm PT
|
Hope is now just a glimmer
When that trail in the sky starts to shimmer
"Twas a rocket, I said,
We can put this to bed"
So says the all knowing Klimmer.
Cragman,
You should know that no one is all knowing but GOD.
And why do you pick on others? Not very Christ like. And to do so to another Brother in Christ.
Shame.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 09:54pm PT
|
Klimmer is that you?
look out for those "Dragon" missiles now.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 09:57pm PT
|
I think it's funny that eye witnesses thought it was a missile, as well as those news folks flying in the helicopter.
"Boy, those folks in the news helicopter sure must be dumb as a box of bait, to not know a plane when they see one."
How many planes do you think they see in the sky in LA, you know, flying every night in their news helicopter?
"Boy, those eye witnesses in LA, never having seen a plane before, those ignorant dumb folk in LA."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/video-catches-mystery-missile-launch-off-la-coast.html
Or to put it in another way, do you think you'd mistake a plane for a missile?
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 10:05pm PT
|
Myself, I believe it was a missile (I don't doubt the eye-witness crew in the news helicopter who believe they saw something other than a plane), and hence a cover-up of some sort. Does that point to a conspiracy? I guess it could. But in the least, it points to a cover-up.
BTW, missile shots out of the water near LA, that's not "normal" DOD operations.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!