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Mr_T
Trad climber
Northern California
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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^^^^^Steven Weinberg wrote-
"In some of Shakespeare’s greatest tragedies, just when the action is about to reach an unbearable climax, the tragic heroes are confronted with some “rude mechanical” offering comic observations: a gravedigger, or a doorkeeper, or a pair of gardeners, or a man with a basket of figs. The tragedy is not lessened, but the humor puts it in perspective."
"The humor puts it in perspective."
.....
BTW, where's Pate? :)
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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rrrAdam-
Here is a short description by the researcher himself. I got to the information with this google: earthquake superstitions and science in Japan
http://ex.isc.osaka-u.ac.jp/oussep-sa/information/oussep/19971201.html
I used to have photos of the candle flame bending about an inch down the candle but that disappeared with a past computer crash. I assume the photo was from his video and is probably reproduced in the book.
(I used to believe in the religion of Macintosh until my Mac Mini abruptly crashed with no warning. My faith shattered, I now belong to the sub sect of backup hard drives).
Meanwhile another site briefly notes:
A bent candle flame, or a candle that is hard to light or burns inefficiently has been noted as an AERP. Ikeya reproduced this effect by generating a charge on the ground that attracts the flame. Ikeya reproduced many other precursor phenomena in the lab by exploring the effects of electrical fields and EM waves. He produced very good evidence to suggest that these conditions are occurring as part of the earthquake progression and showed that the values that could be produced in nature are reasonable to show effects
http://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2007/01/16/whisperspart-3-anomalies-and-a-new-science/
The same author has produced a multipage pdf file on the subject of earthquake prediction based on natural phenomena
http://home.comcast.net/~idoubtit/whispers_complete.pdf
Too bad Juan isn't here to joing the conversation!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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The Taoist temple information came from a British based series on China called The Heart of the Dragon. One hour long video was on Taoism and its influence on Chinese science, noting that the Chinese were the first to make a working compass. He also included Chinese medicine and filmed cataract surgery where the only anesthetic was one needle in the ear which was hooked up to a mild electrical current.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/eacp/japanworks/china/society/heart.htm#Understanding
You know also I assume, that Mt. Blanc is a mountain with magnetic properties that screw up compasses? We were warned right away in Europe not to rely on a compass during a storm on that mountain as many people had walked off of cliffs following what they thought were correct readings.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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rAdam- Where'd your bit about "free will" go? Was it edited out? I was going to call that up. And then suggest we save THAT for later, maybe tomorrow. But now I can't find it.
Food for thought: So-called "free will" is one more subject confounded by early and medieval philos and theology, also today's Am. politics. It's a red herring, easy to work through off of an evolutionary psychological basis. -Which I think you support.
Easy as "God" and "spirit" and "fate" and "faith." Again, only philosophy and theology and all the historical baggage they bring with them mucks it up, the conversation and thinking, that is.
Later.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan - if there is "energy" we detect, we can figure out a way to detect that energy other than through the rather crude biological process which is hypothesized. We can detect our detecting that energy by looking at brain activity, we can pose a large number of direct and indirect tests, rigorous tests, that attempt to provide an empirical basis for such things.
No such thing has been found, which puts a limit on just how weak the signal is, and how good our detection of that signal needs to be.
Explanations of the experiences you have cited may have more to do with human perception, the incorporation of that perception into our consciousness, and the attempt to explain something that is interpreted in such a way as to be unexplainable... strongly dependent on how we are taught to interpret these sorts of experiences.
As a practicing scientist I have learned to be very critical of the measurements that I make, to try to separate what is an artifact of the instruments from what I am trying to observe. That training also has me questioning my scientific interpretation and stripping it of all preconceived notions, down to the bare essence of the measurement, so, as I.I. Rabi once put it to us, a group of graduate students at tea before a seminar "we can have a conversation with nature."
Putting our human experience to such rigorous criticism is one way to confront those confounding experiences... and to start to get to the explanation of them.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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HFCS... Not sure where it went... I often tweak/edit replies, unless someone has replied to it, clarifying and correcting my many typos. But the whole thing is gone. Apparently, I must have jacked it up.
What I said was (to Jan), I believe in free will, don't think I have all the answers, and the more I learn the more questions it tends to raise, but often (but not always) just ones of detail or "how".
Jan... Thanx for the rapid reply with info. I will look at that.
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Crodog
Social climber
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LHC researchers 'set to create a mini-Big Bang'
By Katia Moskvitch, Science reporter, BBC News, 3 November 2010
Researchers at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) are getting set to create the Big Bang on a miniature scale.
Since 2009, the world's highest-energy particle accelerator has been smashing together protons, in a bid to shed light on the fundamental nature of matter.
But now the huge machine will be colliding lead ions instead.
The experiments are planned for early November and will run for four weeks.
The LHC is housed in a 27km-long tunnel on the Franco-Swiss border and is managed by the European Organization for Nuclear Research (Cern).
The collider consists of four different experiments and one of them, ALICE, has been specifically designed to smash together lead ions.
The goal of these collisions is to investigate what the infant Universe looked like. Colliding protons at high energies was aimed at other aspects of physics, such as finding the elusive Higgs boson particle and signs of new physical laws, such as a framework called supersymmetry.
Cern's spokesman James Gillies told BBC News that besides ALICE, the ATLAS and Compact Muon Solenoid (CMS) experiments will also be temporarily colliding ions.
Big Bang
He said the tests could provide an insight into the conditions of the Universe some 13.7 billion years ago, just after the Big Bang.
They will look at the Universe fractions of a second after a tiny but very dense ball of energy exploded to create the cosmos as we know it today. Scientists believe that it was back then that a special state of matter existed, different from the matter the Universe is formed of now.
"Matter exists in various states: you can take a material like water and if you deep freeze it, it'll be solid, and if you put it on a table, it'll turn into a liquid, and if you put it into a kettle, it'll turn into a gas," said Dr Gillies.
"It's all the same stuff, but those are different states of matter. And if you take materials into laboratories, you can pull the electrons off the atoms and you have another state of matter which is called plasma."
But at the very beginning of the Universe, there might have been yet another state of matter. Physicists have dubbed this "stuff" the quark-gluon plasma.
"And this is the state of matter you have if you're able to effectively melt the nuclear matter that makes up atoms today, releasing the things that are inside, which are quarks and gluons," Dr Gillies explained.
Quark and gluon soup
If the researchers at the LHC are able to recreate that state of matter and study it, they could get important clues about how it "evolved into the kind of matter that can make up you and me".
One of the scientists who will be taking a part in the experiment is David Evans from the University of Birmingham, UK.
Dr Evans is one of the scientists who will take part in the new experiment
"Although the tiny fireballs will only exist for a fleeting moment (less than a trillionth of a trillionth of a second) the temperatures will reach over ten trillion degrees, a million times hotter than the centre of the Sun," said Dr Evans.
"At the temperatures generated, even protons and neutrons, which make up the nuclei of the atoms, will melt, resulting in a hot, dense soup of quarks and gluons."
The researcher said that the temperatures and densities that the collider will aim to create will be the highest ever produced in an experiment.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Jan,
Both of those articles about "bending candle flames" only state that it was observed, but nothing wiht any real data to look at.
While I wouldn't be surprised if there were subtle magnetic anomolies or fields generated by earthquakes, I would think that they would be WAY too subtle to have any noticable effect on a flame, AND that is only if there is a significant plasma componant to the flame... I thought the flame of a candle was mainly black body radiation (EM), and electromagnetic radiation has no charge, thus it is NOT effected by a magnetic field... Only charges particles are effected by a magnetic field, and that would be the plasma part of a very hot flame.
I really would like to know more about this... Do you have any more info on this?
As to the Taoist temples... I understood your reply to imply that the monks purposely built all Taoist temples were in locations (on mountains) that had large magnetic fields, that they interpreted as chi... That they could detect this, thus they chose to build there. Is that correct? If so, I was asking for data that supports the statement that all (or even most) Taosist temples were built in areas with large magnetic fields on purpose.
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WBraun
climber
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Crodog -- "LHC researchers 'set to create a mini-Big Bang'
Here the researchers are set to create
Hypocrisy!
First they say there's no creator and now they need to "create".
Stupid modern scientists always just plain "guessing mental speculators".
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I never guessed it was a mental speculator...
my guess was an event display from LHC...
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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OK, after sleeping here tonight, I answer everyone's questions with the Truth tomorrow.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Look forward to this Mike.
Could we start with your take on... "free will" - with special attention given to VARIETIES of free will as conceived by primitive and modern humans, also religious ones (e.g., the Pope) and science-respecting ones (e.g., Hawking).
Once again, I have been giving extra time and thought to this most exciting subject and its relationship to ability, power, also decision-making - so really look forward to your input.
Thanks.
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Crodog
Social climber
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I guess all creators aren't created equal.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Still debating the "how?" vs the "why?"...two different things, but maybe they will intersect at some point
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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rrrAdam-
Sorry that's all I have for bending flame references. I would suggest that you order Iheya's book or get a library to do that since it is expensive.
As for Taoist temples, I believe they said that all major Taoist temples were cited on hills with specific magnetic properties. I would have to watch the video again to catch the exact language.
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MH2
climber
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I hope Mike Bolte comes through on his promise, or prediction?
I think many people have a strong contrarian streak. The more you explain the less they agree with you. On rare happy occasions this can lead to important new knowledge but only if the ideas are testable and the results connect in significant ways to what we already know.
Fortunately, we don't know everything, yet. We still live in an Age of Exploration.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Nope, sorry. Slept in the room where Einstein statyed for a few months in 1930, but woke up just as dumb as ever. They must have cleaned the room or something between then and now.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
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any of you guys read any Hawking? "Brief History of Time" was a great book. He mentions the whole laws of physic ruling out an intelligent creator. Fascinating stuff.
Carl Sagan also has some great books out there on the universe and evolution.
oh yeah.....
......Fvck the Pope!
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