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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Aug 11, 2010 - 07:23am PT
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How did we get into such an involved discussion of astrology anyway? I think most of us here agree that it doesn't work the way it's traditionally been said to work (star power) and if it does work, as in the example Karl provided, we pretty much agree that something else must be going on? That something else seems to be the paranormal but that is quite different from how astrologers claim their "science" works.
Meanwhile, a few words about Sai Baba who is many things to many people.
He claims to have been Shirdi Sai Baba in a past life when his mission was reconciling Hindus and Muslims in India.
This lifetime he was born to an Untouchable caste and promotes education and hospitals for the deprived. His hair alone is enough to remind Indians that he comes from a very ancient tribal group who were forced into lowly status by later invaders. Love his miracles, love his hair, love him, love other people of low status who look like him.
He has promised to be born once again and has predicted the year and name. It will be interesting to see what the message of his next life will be.
Dealing with the issue of reincarnation and the high quality people like the Dalai Lama, who claim to be reincarnated, was one of my earliest introductions in Asia to the paranormal by the way.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Aug 11, 2010 - 08:58am PT
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a haunted ass. who knows, we could still draw pate productively into this discussion.
the thing about the paranormal, jstan, is that most of the data is anecdotal by nature and will probably remain so unless and until some sort of consensus emerges on how to approach it. various hauntings have already been attacked with various scientific instruments. i'm afraid the only thing you come up with are--more anecdotes.
perhaps i stumbled over something back there--the involvement of ritual, be it an astrological routine, a tarot reading, or what two branches of an aborigine tribe engage in, miles apart. i grew up in the land of empty, burned-out ritual, the roman catholic church. rituals only work when you bring something of yourself to them. the catholic church's big mistake is to assume it'll all come down to you from above.
it's not just "belief", which can be as light and casual as signing your name to a petition. there's a real intensity in passionate ritual which somehow gets into the deep-running still water of what we are. and this might produce paranormal effects. and probably not every time.
take that case of the lacerated tongue, damnit. seems to have worked once. jstan, let's volunteer you, or maybe even ed, to be the subject of a double blind study. don't worry, we all love you, so we'll be doing our best. take a swan dive onto a spanish dagger yucca with an open mouth, get your flapper good and mashed up, and we'll all pray to our respective higher powers to put it all back together on the spot. ought to settle the matter once and for all, no?
say what you will about LEB, she's obviously thought through all the possibilities and seems to have a trained, analytical mind. how can this be possible in a woman? you don't have to keep hitting her over the head with your live-cat-from-the-neighborhood theory.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Aug 11, 2010 - 09:53am PT
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OMG. It's a confederacy of Horoscope readers. (cf: league of morons, Osbourne Cox; confederacy of dunces) You'd think this was the 13th century, not the 21st. No wonder we never got any traction over on the god threads. This thread is an embarassment.
To the children who happen across this thread, click away. All this pseudo crap was settled in the 50s to 80s of the LAST century. By scientifically savvy, scientifically passionate people. Move on. Don't get sucked in. Get away now.
You wonder why the U.S. lost its science and technology leadership in the world - and continues to do so at an alarming rate - this thread points to the reason. Shame.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Aug 11, 2010 - 10:43am PT
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Yeah. And others, too. Hence the incentive for getting involved, speaking out, doing something, on and off the Taco.
LOL. -From behind the facepalm, that is.
You have a way with imagery and words, Pate, thanks for hanging out here.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 11, 2010 - 11:21am PT
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Lois:
If it was just a similar cat in that place I am not sure what was supposed to be paranormal about the event. My bad.
Cats mark their domains and your pet had probably marked it's favorite spot. Possibly the second cat had knowledge that the owner of that spot had died and so a very nice spot was now open for a new owner.
When we get up in the morning our minds are not in the same state they are at the end of a work day. The state in which you found yourself that morning may have had much to do with your experience. Possibly you had been dealing with loss while sleeping.
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scarface
Trad climber
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Aug 11, 2010 - 12:45pm PT
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By the way, since I "live on the net" I am considering redecorating. I don't like the stupid theme very much.
Oh Pate, are you butt sore again? Take a deep breath, and go on a vacation. It will serve you well.
OMG. It's a confederacy of Horoscope readers. (cf: league of morons, Osbourne Cox; confederacy of dunces) You'd think this was the 13th century, not the 21st. No wonder we never got any traction over on the god threads. This thread is an embarassment.
To the children who happen across this thread, click away. All this pseudo crap was settled in the 50s to 80s of the LAST century. By scientifically savvy, scientifically passionate people. Move on. Don't get sucked in. Get away now.
Corn, It appears that it is all black and white to you, that with the passage of time always comes improvement. At any level you look at it, like your fractal avatar, one will find golden ages. There have been amazing eras and places of human enlightenment at various scales.
Since you seem to enjoy your constrained perspective so much may I suggest that you take down your numerous filters and go on a vacation as well. Try not to do so with Pate. You suck up to him too much as it is.
You have a way with imagery and words, Pate, thanks for hanging out here.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 11, 2010 - 03:02pm PT
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Jan - the point is that the astrological hypothesis is shown to fail, that is, you can't tell anything about a person from knowing the time of their birth (except their age), that would exclude your speculation on some sort of undetected global cycle... which was the point of my posting, that testing that hypothesis eliminates all of the other discussion.
LEB - you can chase your cat's tail around in circles and not actually come up with anything definite "qualitatively." Ask yourself these questions:
How many times have you seen any cat at that spot?
How certain are you of that?
How many times have cats been at that spot and you didn't see them?
How certain are you of that?
How many times have you seen a cat at that spot and forgotten that you had seen them?
How certain are you of that?
Now do the same with the the word 'cat' replaced by 'a cat similar to your cat'
and again with 'your cat'
the estimate of certainty is important too...
...why go through this? because if what you saw was just some random occurrence then we don't need to use it to justify a discussion of the "paranormal," if it is just random then it is quite "normal."
By the way, you can't answer the questions easily... as you will find out when you try to apply actual quantities, a big reason to try to do so... that exercise quickly uncovers the weakness of you understanding of the observation, and points the way to a better observational regime.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Aug 11, 2010 - 04:37pm PT
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Intermission-
Pate, what were you doing, playing around with the source code or something on that other thread? Hmm... interesting...
Back to the program-
I still think it's Klimmer or one of the fundamentalists.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Aug 11, 2010 - 04:52pm PT
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What if it is not LEB's cat, but rather Schrodinger's cat?
Could it not be dead and alive at the same time?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 11, 2010 - 05:13pm PT
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LEB=Schrodinger?!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 11, 2010 - 05:25pm PT
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So is Schrodinger alive or dead then?
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jstan
climber
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Aug 11, 2010 - 06:08pm PT
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If Lois knew the story behind Schrodinger's cat, she could go to town on it.
It were best if we keep it a secret.
Shhhhhh!
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scarface
Trad climber
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Aug 11, 2010 - 06:33pm PT
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try to make us look like idiots.
Try? Not me. You do the work quite well yourself.
Here's another idea for you Pate. Since you are glued to the net, why don't you take the plunge and join Second Life. Take your virtual reality where it is welcomed. All your rules and prescriptions here are the real big yaaaawn.
SF
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 11, 2010 - 11:09pm PT
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BooYah
Social climber
Ely, Nv
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Aug 11, 2010 - 11:14pm PT
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Well, maybe he's telling you that in order to study something, one must have a "thing" to study.
You have mere conjecture. A Will o' the Wisp, as it were.
Nothing=0
You need to stop bothering Mr. H. He's a good fellow & tried hard to follow your path of bullsh#t.
I couldn't either, Ed.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 11, 2010 - 11:18pm PT
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zero to the power of ten equals...
nothing at all..
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 12, 2010 - 12:45am PT
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nothingness fills a void though boys.....can you say LEB?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 12, 2010 - 12:53am PT
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 12, 2010 - 01:49am PT
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Aug 12, 2010 - 12:04pm PT
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I found this info from Wikipedia to be interesting.
I was researching something else and just stumbled across it.
Hans Jürgen Eysenck (March 4, 1916 – September 4, 1997) was a British psychologist of German origin, best remembered for his work on intelligence and personality, though he worked in a wide range of areas. At the time of his death, Eysenck was the living psychologist most frequently cited in science journals.[1]
Despite this strongly scientific interest, Eysenck did not shy, in later work, from giving attention to parapsychology and astrology. Indeed, he believed that empirical evidence supported the existence of paranormal abilities.[18]
"Unless there is a gigantic conspiracy involving some thirty university departments all over the world, and several hundred highly respected scientists in various fields, many of them originally hostile to the claims of the psychical researchers, the only conclusion the unbiased observer can come to must be that there is a small number of people who obtain knowledge existing either in other people's minds, or in the outer world, by means as yet unknown to science."
18. Eysenck, H.J. (1957), Sense and Nonsense in Psychology. London: Pelican Books. p. 131.
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