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Mimi
climber
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Jun 30, 2010 - 11:34pm PT
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Are you saying those activities lead to offspring?
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Mimi
climber
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Jun 30, 2010 - 11:44pm PT
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Water is a more dire resource than energy in the near future.
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Mimi
climber
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Jun 30, 2010 - 11:52pm PT
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Post the countries with higher rates.
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Mimi
climber
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No, not birth rate. What about replacement rate? And doesn't longevity continue to increase?
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dirtbag
climber
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I'm surprised Iran made the first list. For quite awhile after the Revolution their population was booming.
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Mimi
climber
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The last data set is telling and very scary to me.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Rokjox: Great Graph on U.S. birthrate. Answers some questions I was too lazy to look-up.
Thanks Dude!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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OOOPs to all. I am not involved in this thread!
I was bored and checked into the most recent posts. My complement to Rokjock: for his posts on birthrates in the world and US.
Otherwise: when I start backing into the thread-----have fun----and have a nice discussion-------and watch out for those "black helicopters".
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Mimi
climber
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Rok, the oil crunch isn't happening anytime soon. Water will be what people are fighting over first on a more local level. We're stuck with Big Oil for a long time.
Have you seen Julie and Julia yet? Watching it now. It's great. Hilarious.
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WBraun
climber
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I was in Mali.
The mortality rate is 75% up to age 5.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sadly, Climate change doesn't seem to favor Africa either. The desert is growing there.
Peace
karl
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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One of the challenges is that all politicians prefer their country to have a growing population. It means you're at least keeping up with your neighbours/rivals, in terms of raw numbers. It also means built-in steady economic growth. Declining population is a difficult thing to manage.
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WBraun
climber
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Politicians are the dumbest idiots on the planet .....
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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To add to RJ's comments, a main element in both declining fertility and increased family incomes is education of females.
Edit: The downside to these things being in some places gender-selected abortions, since ultrasound and other fetal tests. Which in turn means huge M/F imbalances in the 0 - 20 year old cohorts in some countries, in the 60-40 range or higher, with unforeseeable sociological and other impacts.
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Mimi
climber
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With a decline shown by the data and with other extinction trends, once we drop below 1%, humans will be in danger of extinction despite the current spike in poor pops.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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OK: Here goes in short form:
Dr. K writes: So if you can't explain something, if the mind is incapable of understanding all, if we can say that there are things unknowable
If we admit that we will never know all, that our minds can only accept logical explanations
Then you have to accept God as well, or it just shows just how closed minded you are,
Is this the Largo argument
Mine isn't an "argument" per se. An argument has to do with quantifiable data or facts or figures that can be arranged in a way in which we can grind with our evaluating minds.
Above, you say that when the rational mind encounters that which it cannot quantify and "know" in the regular way, that you have to "accept God as well, or it just shows how close minded you are."
Here you are still in a very real way insisting that "God" is a "thing," but some kind of unknowable, unquantifiable thing that we have to uncomfortably file, strictly on faith, alongside all the other things in our mind. Problem is, God doesn't fit in our minds.
An "open mind" is still the wrong tool for any of this because what is implied here is that what is open, is our evaluating mind, "open" for anther thing to grasp. It is no fault of "God" that "he/she" is ungraspable, and only underscores the fact that the evaluating mind is the wrong tool for the job. When the evaluating mind starts yelling bullshit and so forth, it is basically demanding that the All take a form and show it's face so we can get hold of the sucker once and for all. An "open mind" here simply the willingness to step beyond this tantrum and grasping.
The All is open to anyone's direct experience but it becomes something different once the evaluating mind tries to lock it down into some particular form or thing. In my experience, this undifferentiated, unborn all, which is also nothing at all or no-thing, is our most basic nature, out of which mind, brain, consciousness and self-awareness all arise. When you consciously become this being or abiding, you are dangling in infinity.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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DB, i'm afraid you didn't quite get what i asked for, which was some basic confirmation of the alleged dna-typing operation. as far as the passengers go, there's suspicious stuff there too. obviously many were killed--somehow and somewhere.
this was a war operation. in war, you have collateral damage. many people have come to believe that pearl harbor was intentional collateral damage of our own soldiers in order to draw america into a big war. it worked a charm. that operation northwoods we keep talking about was a very real plan, cooked up by our own joint chiefs of staff, the top people in the military, sworn to uphold yada yada, to stage a 9/11-type attack on our own citizens and blame it on castro, to draw the country into another conflict. we're not making this up. it's now public record, released under the freedom of information act. the u.s.s. liberty incident, which rox brought up, was another case where they tried to kill a ship full of our own sailors--and succeeded to kill some of them--for some kind of coverup of what israel was doing in its six-day war. when you join the service, be prepared to give your life for your country in unexpected ways. jon krakauer has a book out now on how pat tillman did just that.
you've got some good leads there, DB, but it's going to take more than a five-minute google. yes, people died--or at least disappeared. that's obvious because the stories contain real human interest, names and hometowns. my question is whether they received the remains of their loved ones. sorry, but it will be sensitive. maybe you're a good climber, but this will take another kind of fortitude. we're trying to confirm that they received bits of mangled, burned and exploded bodies from the pentagon, pennsylvania and the wtc. and while you're at it, please ask the families how--and if--the government rounded up secondary dna samples from them to compare with the cell nuclei from the human remains. forensic dna work takes quite a bit of time. this would have been nothing short of a nightmare. all i ever saw on the news was an aerial view of the warehouse in which it allegedly took place.
my suspicions about 9/11 all came in retrospect. i'll bet rokjox, klimmer and jolly roger have similar stories to tell. for me, the wtc was the big one because i happen to have a background in construction work. but there were other things too, related to your little assignment here. timing was one of them. on 9/12 we immediately had the faces of 19 hijackers on the front page. such things take longer to round up, i'd say a week, at the least, and since you seem to like lists, you'll find that none of these hijacker characters even appeared on the airline passenger lists. occam's razor? government files.
the other fishy thing was the twin towers. i once covered a disaster where a natural gas explosion went off in a small town restaurant, killing 11 people. i also remember the nimitz bridge collapse in the 1989 bay area earthquake. people get trapped in such situations. it's messy, but usually a few survive and there are frantic and heroic attempts at rescue. none of this at the wtc. occam's razor again: you don't do rescue, or even pick meat, when you use a lot of thermite.
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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edgejom has it right... you can get 10 different data sources with 10 different sets of statistics and projections. You might as well make them up as quote wikipedia...
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dirtbag
climber
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you've got some good leads there, DB, but it's going to take more than a five-minute google. yes, people died--or at least disappeared. that's obvious because the stories contain real human interest, names and hometowns. my question is whether they received the remains of their loved ones. sorry, but it will be sensitive. maybe you're a good climber, but this will take another kind of fortitude. we're trying to confirm that they received bits of mangled, burned and exploded bodies from the pentagon, pennsylvania and the wtc. and while you're at it, please ask the families how--and if--the government rounded up secondary dna samples from them to compare with the cell nuclei from the human remains. forensic dna work takes quite a bit of time. this would have been nothing short of a nightmare. all i ever saw on the news was an aerial view of the warehouse in which it allegedly took place.
Oh for Christ sake. You really have no idea how totally absurd and contrived this sounds.
The problem with conspiracy kooks like yourself is that you can never accept it when an idea has been disproven. There is always a chance, in your mind, that the all powerful bogeymen--who or whatever the f*#k they happen to "be"--are concealing or distorting evidence.
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