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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Nov 11, 2014 - 10:10am PT
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This is a pretty good example of what I've been dealing with lately.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 11, 2014 - 10:16am PT
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First of all. Thank you all for your love and support.
Audrey: I don't have fans. I have friends. Just some of them i haven't met yet.
I do hope that you realize that this love that Sandra has given you was a blessing and that what you gave her was also a blessing, though I do fully understand that right now it is painful
Of course i realize this. That's why i am so confused. She never meant to tell me that way, but we were fighting about something stupid and it just came out.
I haven't done anything to deal with my snoring, and she's concerned about my mental health since i've refused any counselling since i got home. My financial paperwork/taxes is a couple years behind which predates my injury. I could be a lot more helpful around the house... I need to work on my core and my fitness again. I've been slacking bigtime.
She has many issues too. I won't go into it here. I thought we were a team working towards a better future together. Accepting each others faults as human and trying to get to a place where we could happily co-exist. I certainly wasn't going to put a ring on her finger until we got there, and i thought we were super close. But apparently she's sick of my sh#t.
What makes matters worse is we are stuck living together until at least May. The rental climate here is next to nil at the moment. Even in squish and pembo. So we are trying to make it work for now, but if she can't accept my faults, and love me anyways.... Do i really want to be with her?
Of course i have options to get away, but home base won't change until spring at least.
Edit: right on charlie b
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John M
climber
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Nov 11, 2014 - 10:21am PT
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^^^^^^^
that is the best cartoon I have seen describing what people with depression have to deal with. Totally made me laugh. Especially the picture with the hand cut off. Can't say how many times I've heard people tell me to just get over it. "its like you're not even trying". hahaha… oh lord. Exactly.
I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this right now Charlie. Depression sucks and I'm always surprised at how many people are dealing with it. Mainly because most people don't talk about it because of what people say to you, as in the cartoon.
Better days brother. better days.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Nov 11, 2014 - 10:34am PT
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Life's a bitch but you can't live without it...Happiness is way over- rated in my book...
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Nov 11, 2014 - 10:45am PT
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I don't have fans. I have friends. You'd be surprised! Many of us wear both hats .... nothing like a fan club made up of friends!
Hugs!
Susan
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Nov 11, 2014 - 10:55am PT
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I haven't done anything to deal with my snoring, and she's concerned about my mental health since i've refused any counselling since i got home. My financial paperwork/taxes is a couple years behind which predates my injury. I could be a lot more helpful around the house...
So, those all sound like things you can deal with, issues which you have the option to work on.
I'm not going to tell you that you should just deal with them, but I am going to suggest that you should examine what's keeping you from dealing with them, and see if that helps any to illuminate your problem.
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John M
climber
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Nov 11, 2014 - 10:58am PT
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Hey Big Mike.. Thanks for sharing that. It gives a better picture of whats going on. My post yesterday missed the mark as I didn't understand all the ins and outs. Sorry Big guy..It sounds like you have a lot on your plate.
I want to say more, but right now I am having a foggy brain day, and I don't want to make things worse. I do still believe that you can find your way through this. My thoughts go with you today.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 11, 2014 - 11:06am PT
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Thank you, John M and Charlie B, for expressing what the medical condition of depression is like, and the absurdity of telling people "just pull yourself together and get over it."
Severe depressive disorder involves much more than feeling sad. It involves both an inability to initiate (or, often, even to care about) needed action, and an inability to self-diagnose. In my experience, the only things that really helped were getting me in the hands of professionals, and knowing that I wasn't alone.
Big Mike, you most certainly are not alone, both among climbers and among people. Often, bouts of depression have nothing to do with external matters - although if untreated, they can lead to situations that would make anyone feel great discouragement. I've lived through that, too, and have a standing offer to anyone (of course including you), to contact me if you want someone who can listen because he's "been there, done that."
You are someone whose posts I've admired for years. I know many others on this forum love and admire you - and it's not because we don't know what you know about yourself. It's precisely because they do know you. I applaud the honestly and bravery of your discussion of that topic on this thread, and offer whatever, small, encouragement I can in your struggle.
John
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 11, 2014 - 11:09am PT
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So, those all sound like things you can deal with, issues which you have the option to work on.
I'm not going to tell you that you should just deal with them, but I am going to suggest that you should examine what's keeping you from dealing with them, and see if that helps any to illuminate your problem.
It's all stuff i've wanted to deal with dru, but procrastinating is my major weakness. I was just so tired after work, (carrying a 24-32 foot ladder around all day) that i had no physical or mental energy left to deal with any of that, and i wanted to recreate on weekends. I could have done more last winter if i didn't allow myself to slide into the black hole of nothingness for weeks on end.
Stuff that's definitely going to be dealt with this winter for sure. Point is she has issues too. I accept them and that she's working on them. Is it too much to expect the same?
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 11, 2014 - 11:10am PT
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Like my Italian grandmother once said, "throw up, you'll feel better".
If we look at all the stuff we think we should be doing, we wouldn't have the time or the ambition to do those things. This where I sometimes find myself and it is not always reassuring that important change only comes when the sh#t is hitting the provrbial fan.
You're not alone,brother.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Nov 11, 2014 - 11:23am PT
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i've bouts of vicious saddness.
where sin is my only hope.
my mother in law, she is probably diagnosably depressed;
though she's trying to move in with us
after a lifetime of poor decisions
(perhaps due to her depression)
her finances are in shambles, her life-quality expectation extremely high; her social compatibility sucks; her drive is dead; her employability, nil.
and i'm pushing her away.
you see i was raised staunch republican
and taught that a firm grip on the waist band
and a giant tug skyward is all that's needed
to get your asse together.
those in need deserve to be in need.
and, though i situationally detest these teachings that i received,
they are core to my emotional makeup,
and my default when stressed.
my poor wife is torn,
and i can forsee perhaps grandma committing suicide
for she is deeply screwed,
and then i will have to answer to my wife,
or rather to her boundless hate towards me
if souls should fly....
and i'll just pickle myself, again and again and again.
and i'll just keep getting up for another beating,
that's what dad taught me.
that's f*#king life.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 11, 2014 - 11:28am PT
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Chuck- I am sorry. Your problems are so much tougher than my silly issues. Stuck between a rock and a hard place where i am about to be free and i'm just whining about change.
You know you have a canuck who will take your call at any hour.
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John M
climber
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Nov 11, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
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I could have done more last winter if i didn't allow myself to slide into the black hole of nothingness for weeks on end.
Allow yourself? Depression isn't exactly like that. Did you allow yourself to break your back? I'm not trying to be hard on you Big Mike, but this is the kind of stuff a therapist could help you sort through. Its not weakness.
These are simply my beliefs based on my own experience. Some of depression is how we think.. Some of it is an over build up of stress. Some of it is that we live in a world where the build up of karma is such that it is a weight on everyone. i.e.,, pollution as an example. Which makes life hard for everyone exposed to it. Then we have our own karma, which is just a build up of our own decisions.. i.e.,.. eating poorly can lead to poor health. Toss in our family genes on top of that and it can hardly be described is simply "allowing" ourselves to slide downward. That kind of statement smacks too much of the cartoon type statements in the cartoon Charlie posted. You are beating up on yourself. A lot of this is exactly the kinds of things a good therapist can help you deal with. They can teach you to Reorganize your thinking. They can Teach you a new way to see things. Which would lead to what oplopanax was saying… the why of why you are "allowing" yourself to slide. Not that I believe that you are exactly allowing yourself to slide as though you are weak. I have seen too much of you. You aren't weak.. or lazy. Lazy people don't climb. They don't build a business. They don't rebuild their snow mobile and go blasting around the back country.
I don't' say any of this to try and beat up on you. I want you to see that how you think could be affecting your energy level. Our subconscious beliefs are buried beliefs that come out under stress. They are revealed in tiny misuses of words. They show up in our actions when we want to do one thing, but find ourselves doing something else. A good therapist can help you uncover these subconscious beliefs. Its those beliefs that are robbing you. Its not laziness. Or even lack of will. You just can't do the things that you have done and be a lazy person who just allows themselves to slide down. It doesn't work that way. its not a matter of just deciding to be better. That is a tiny part of it. One does need that decision, but that decision to be better is only a tiny part of it. After you decide to be a better person, then you need the tools to actually become a better person. Discovering our subconscious beliefs is a part of that process. It can be very healing. I would be dead by now if I hadn't uncovered some subconscious beliefs that were sabotaging me.
One last thing Big Mike, and I will stop hammering on you. :-)
. Your problems are so much tougher than my silly issues.
I know that you don't' really think your problems are silly.. but can you see that the words we use can reveal how we subconsciously think about things? If subconsciously you believe that your problems are silly, then of course you would not want to work on them, which would lead to the situations that you face now which can feel overwhelming. I understand that it is good sometimes to look beyond ourselves, so that we can get a better perspective. You do have that capacity and that compassion and you show it here. Yet your words can also reveal possible reasons for why you find it difficult to just "not allow yourself to slide down".
Do you see what I am saying? Sometimes I don't' know if I am being clear as I have my own foggy days, and I don't want to put something on you that isn't yours. I care about you Big guy.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 11, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
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Tami, you have told me of those horrible bouts that Phil goes through and you are correct. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I was thinking more of that hangover thing. I was going through a bad bout with gout this spring and in the middle of all the pain and the self-doubt that memory of my grandmother saying that to my uncle when he was drunk made me laugh and it immediately gave me relief. Humor can be a powerful elixir from the stress of living.
Live. Love. Laugh.
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TheSoloClimber
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Nov 11, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
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I'm not going to get into my sh#t on here.... the people who I want to know about it, know about it.
Mike, you know that I know what you're going through.... I'm here to talk if you want.
All I'm gonna say is, only you and her know what is worth fighting for. If you both care enough to make the effort, then as hard as it might be, it's worth it. It takes work, holy sh#t does it take a lot of work, but when the effort is made, results show. Trust me.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Nov 11, 2014 - 04:07pm PT
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Ho man, I woulda written 3 guidebooks by now if I wasn't a procrastinator.
Just remember when you put something off until tomorrow, tomorrow never comes. If you really want to get something done, give yourself a deadline, and a penalty for missing it.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 11, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
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hey there say, johnEleazaian...
wow, as to this quote from you:
Nov 11, 2014 - 11:06am PT
Thank you, John M and Charlie B, for expressing what the medical condition of depression is like, and the absurdity of telling people "just pull yourself together and get over it."
Severe depressive disorder involves much more than feeling sad. It involves both an inability to initiate (or, often, even to care about) needed action, and an inability to self-diagnose. In my experience, the only things that really helped were getting me in the hands of professionals, and knowing that I wasn't alone.
this is what really stood out, for the friends that share with me, as to how far they have come from their depressions (two good friends, share, regularly, with my, a few times a week)....
well, it is this:
"
It involves both an inability to initiate (or, often, even to care about) needed action, and an inability to self-diagnose."
they have found through a therapist (though take care to find one that feels right--some just miss the mark, sadly) ..well, they have found this--the very reason that they are getting through this, and managing things, is due to see and then, learning about 'inability to initiate needed actions, and inability to self-diagnose' INSTEAD, THEY WERE at the mercy of:
not taking action (whether by dialog, discerning if what someone continually said about them was true or not--especially when from parents)...
not taking action to move/step away from the 'line of fire'...
not fixing or adjusting things that were piling up in their life, as to physical daily issues, agendas, etc...
not, etc, etc...
and deepest of all, the not able to 'self-diagnose' (WHICH the therapist was able to GIVE such info, after watching and learning about those in need, that came to the offices) (my friends, in this case)...
and--THIS IS THE PART
that kept them in the spiral, downward... and yes, well,
other friends might have tried to share, or boost moral, or offer all kinds of ways that could be 'life savors' to help, 'til they could swim, but:
the friends (and most likely, folks in general) could not diagnose enough, to even know they were wrapped up in these
situations, many of which came from all the NOTS... the worse not,
being:
without 'initiative' to NOT let ones self-esteem to be MOLDED by what others say, leads you to 'turn into something you are not' IN THE EYES of those, doing the talking...
AND you, can't deny it, and you can't overcome it: you are now--trapped...
their therapist have helped them PINPOINT the whats, whys, and hows, and by who, that these were builts up (the major keys of the their depression triggers) and--not only that, they have also through time and trust, been able to THEN show and teach HOW to self-diagnose, WHAT these gals need to
DO TO STOP being in these positions, and WHY they slip into being depressed... when you can see yourself, in a 'teachers' eyes (so to speak) through trust, you CAN learn... AND BY learning, you have hope
to 'react' in positive ways... ways that TURN the key, to an open
door of freedom and LIGHT and fresh air to be able to THINK again... and--to see results, the results of inner peace and joy, at being YOU...
you can be you, in the midst of any circumstance, and sail your boat, through the dismal seas, or the joyous seas... then... one DOES require more work, for the dismal seas, but 'north star' of knowing WHO you are and what held you down, keeps it all clearly on track for the long haul....
now, last note... one of these gals, only one, DOES have a community club type organization where they know each other and IF she feels she is slipping (and sadly, due to family members, when they get together) there is that extra anchor of FRIENDS AND COUNCIL AND SUPPORT...
so, whewww, i said all that to just support what john said--those in depressions, CAN'T see the garden to be had, as the thorn bushes of ones SELF have to be tackled and cut away with care and sorted out... initiative... and... self-diagnose...
years back, (the gals confessed) if anyone would have tried to help or share help: they would not see or believe that there were any answers at all... the felt THAT hopeless... suicidal and self-hurt wise (one of them) ... and the other (was agressive, attack-mode and get back at folks, to keep them at bay)...
i do see victories and so does do their loved ones... so whatever your various troubles... yes, please, keep sharing, looking, trying and just
please do NOT GIVE UP!!
keys can only be found, by looking for them... and they DO OPEN
doors of hope, and those lead out to freedom...
whether a 'stay on guard' type of freedom... or a solid freedom... whichever... keep your trail, once you step out...
keep your friends!! and keep your councilors!!!
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Nov 11, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
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I haven't done anything to deal with my snoring I can think of at least three relatively easy ways of dealing with snoring.
1. Ear plugs e.g. these plugs
2. Wait a little bit. When my hearing deteriorated I stopped hearing snoring of my wife.
3. Change of a mindset. I do not sleep well in a hotel room after a long break because of a noise of different A/C fans. I just accept it and do not try to do anything. However in a couple of weeks I just do not hear the same noise anymore and it doesn't prevent me from sleeping better.
Approach is relatively simple – just accept it, do not focus on it, relax and wait.
So I believe that a person can learn how to deal with snoring the same way I learned how to deal with A/C noise.
Good luck.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 11, 2014 - 08:43pm PT
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Thanks Sooze!!
Thanks Tami! I've been meaning to come hang with u guys. Sounds like a great excuse.
Allow yourself? Depression isn't exactly like that. Did you allow yourself to break your back? I'm not trying to be hard on you Big Mike, but this is the kind of stuff a therapist could help you sort through. Its not weakness.
I hear you John. You are correct. That is defeatist language and i know it. It was really nice to have a counsellor at GF and she made me feel really comfortable and helped me look at things from the other point of view..
I just need to find the right person and i haven't devoted any time to it.
If subconsciously you believe that your problems are silly, then of course you would not want to work on them, which would lead to the situations that you face now which can feel overwhelming.
Yup. My priorities are skewed for sure. These issues definitely are not as important to me as they are to my partner and are easier for me to ignore. Now it's blowing up in my face.
Of course the underlying issue there is my societal view, and what i truly find important. It can be tough to chase the dollar when you don't really believe in it. When in fact you find it and what it truly represents, repugnant.
In that matter John, my heart goes out to you sir. I wish there was more i could do to help you with your plight.
Just remember when you put something off until tomorrow, tomorrow never comes. If you really want to get something done, give yourself a deadline, and a penalty for missing it.
That is very wise advice Dru. Thank you. When I actually put my mind to it, things can get done very quickly. I just need to get over that hump. Thanks for the shove.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 11, 2014 - 08:50pm PT
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3. Change of a mindset. I do not sleep well in a hotel room after a long break because of a noise of different A/C fans. I just accept it and do not try to do anything. However in a couple of weeks I just do not hear the same noise anymore and it doesn't prevent me from sleeping better.
Approach is relatively simple – just accept it, do not focus on it, relax and wait.
So I believe that a person can learn how to deal with snoring the same way I learned how to deal with A/C noise.
I agree entirely dude! My ex used to do this with me. Unfortunately it requires a partner capable of adapting their mindset.........
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