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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:59pm PT
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I got 26 points, anyway, Dr. F.
That was kinda fun. Thanks. Memory Lane, & all. Cheers!
Love your succulents.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 31, 2010 - 11:09pm PT
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BHO's intellectual progenitor is at it again,
http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/2010/12/30/cloward-piven-strategy-for-today/
but a prescient contributor to another forum captured the fallacy of the thesis.
"1 Cloward-Piven, that weak minded duo, have several critical failures in their theory.
The first is the odd assumption that capitalism is a recent invention, slapped together by nefarious men in a slapdash manner, instead of a powerful and evolved means of mutual benefit across the economic spectrum.
The second is that the poor have chutzpah enough to demand entitlements and largess from the middle and upper classes. Revolutions do not start from the poor, but from the middle and upper classes. The poor just go along for the ride.
And the third bad assumption is that the middle and upper classes cannot squish the poor like insects if they become too pestiferous.
On top of that, they don't grasp perhaps the most important point, that if they push the welfare system to the breaking point, it is not capitalism that will be broken, but the welfare system.
That is, no more welfare. How revolutionary will the poor feel then?
Posted by Anonymoose 2010-12-31 10:03||"
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 31, 2010 - 11:11pm PT
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Everyone should throw "nasty words" at the LEB. Maybe, someday, it'll get the hint.And go back to its bridge.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 31, 2010 - 11:33pm PT
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What's he wrong about?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
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What to we have the United States Marines for? I bet THEY would know how to handle the situation if given the opportunity to do so.
I don't believe it is legal for the US Military to occupy the United States in a military action. I believe that is up to the applicable police.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 11:59pm PT
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I hope so because I would very much like to see it implemented on a larger scale. I am aware that the military and the VA use this sort of a system. I know Kaiser Permanente tried it as an HMO but my impression of HMOs is that they fail miserably in this regard largely because of the profit motive and greed of the underlying insurance company. What is your take on the HMO as an attempt in socialized medicine?
Several of the example you site involve insurance companies and I think we need to take them OUT of this mix. Do you agree?
Actually, HMO's have had a very big impact. Kaiser I still think is the largest health care provider in the US. There is much that says that it provides some of the highest quality care. It is basically non-profit.
I think it is a reasonable blueprint to be followed.
Another is Group Health Cooperative, probably the next generation, and is the model for the Accountable Care Organization envisioned in the health care reform of RomneyCare.
Standard insurance companies are evil and need to be destroyed as part of healthcare.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I did part of my training in VA hospitals, and thought it bordered on third world. For years I held it out as a model of what was wrong. A couple of years back, I had my eyes opened. There has been a dramatic change in what goes on there. It is now a place that does things dramatically well, although I am sure that there are variations that exist from facility to facility.
It is now an example of the Gov't doing something right.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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he is 10000000000000000% wrong
just like you TGT
wrong about everything
Answer the question.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Ben Franklin bankrolled Rev. Whitfield, the Billy Sunday of his day, Organized a fund drive to build an auditorium for him, and had him as a house guest for a year or more. (check his autobiography).
Her also left the equivalent of a million or so in adjusted value to the church he rarely attended. And he's the least Orthodox of the bunch, other than Payne who Adams , or Jefferson, (cant remember which right now} castigated him for his atheist views.
Then you have Payne's speech on the essential need for religion later in his life before a British philosophical society.
Fully one third of the signers of the Constitution had divinity degrees.
Jefferson was quoted as saying his best political ideas were inspired by sermons and occurred in a church.
You haven't the foggiest clue
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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I can cherry pick the writings of Aquinas or Martin Luther and come up with the same.
any mans philosophical or religious musings can be depicted about any way you wish to isolate them, but to try to generalize the founders as some sort of modern neoatheist is just an attempt to produce a nonexistent history to support a fantasy view of their own prejudices.
A few key players were diests that still considered conventional religion essential, most of them were rather orthodox.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
Jesus, Mathew 27:46
It don't mean Sh#t without the context.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Fat wrote: I like Bob very very much, he is one quality human being, but he does throw down some nasty words at LEB.
She is a sick little troll craving for attention that she doesn't get in other parts of her life. Over 18,000 posts on a rock climbing site and she doesn't have the slightest clue what it takes to be one, to be part of this community and give back in a positive way.
Dr.F rules, it wasn't some dumb ass Noah ark believing conservative that started this tread...it was a free thinking, liberal, progressive person. Not some bible thumping backwoods Lois, SUAP, TGT or Bookworm conservative. You idiots got troll into showing how backwards and destructive you thinking really is.
Dr.F caught you idiots hook, line and sinker.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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We KNOW who's negative, Evil manifestation.
We know. Go home, back to Dys with you!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Lois wrote: TGT, while we enjoy the peace and serenity of our families, our spiritual traditions and our traditions, they are ever looking for yet another thing to denigrate and demean. They live in a world of negativity wherein they resent your peace, your contentment and above all your wealth (both material and spiritual).
That is funny coming from a woman who uses Supertopo as a spiritual haven.
18,000 posts...sick.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Lois wrote: Take your head out of your ass and do something positive with your life instead of worrying about what TGT believes in.
You sick sociopath...you have bigger issues that need to dealt with..go seek help.
Over 18,000 attention getting posts...you go girl.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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If you bit me, you'd be a sorrier bitch than you already are.
Oh, yes.
1 is all you'd get. I'd pull those teeth.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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AC wrote: He's no doubt quite upset to learn that everything he thought was true about Jefferson and "Payne" is simply another one of his endless string of delusions and lies.
Jefferson was an atheist who screw any woman within 100 miles of his farm, he also preferred woman of color.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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AC...think twice on that one.
"Fix Reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason than of blindfolded fear. ... Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it end in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others which it will procure for you" (Jefferson's Works, Vol. ii., p. 217).
The God of the Old Testament -- the God which Christians worship -- Jefferson pronounces "a being of terrific character -- cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust" (Works Vol. iv., p. 325).
He didn't believe in the same cruel god of TGT.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jefferson was, if anything, a deist, as were most of your founding fathers. They came from the upper middle and upper classes, and so many had college degrees - which, in the mid 18th century, were often divinity degrees. A bit like an arts degree in the 1950s. Pretty paper, the admission to your class. Not to be taken seriously by children of the Enlightenment.
There is a fascinating new book called "Christianity: The First 3,000 Years". 1,000 pages, many of which will cause evangelicals and such discomfort. It includes quite a lot about the evolution of the various brands of Christianity in the US, but notes the deism of the founders, the fact that George Washington wasn't a member of any church and may never have taken communion, and the fact that at the time of the "revolution", fewer than 10% of Americans belonged to any church.
If you stick to the facts, you won't find much support for the notion that the founders intended Christianity as any sort of state religion, indeed quite the opposite. They'd learned the hard way over the preceding 150 years that religious exclusivism is usually destructive, both from the wars of religion in Europe, and spin-off conflicts in North America.
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