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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 31, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
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Sounds like Afghanistan is the voter fraud capital of the world. Whether it's a particular problem in Chicago or Illinois is another matter - apparently it used to be, 40 - 50 years ago. Isn't there some independent body that watches elections in the US, and assesses them? Apart from the courts, that is?
Of course, the voting in Florida in 2000 was a humiliation for democracy and so the world, and the only one who came out of it with something like an intact reputation was Gore, when in the end he conceded, notwithstanding that had the election been conducted fairly and in accordance with democratic norms, he would have won.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 31, 2010 - 06:17pm PT
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Lois wrote: Bush won the election but a whole bunch of "whineys" were not very happy with the outcome. I say get over it.
He was awarded the election Lois. Funding for national parks were decimated under Bush. I say get over it!!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 31, 2010 - 06:20pm PT
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Lois wrote: Just wait until you see what happens to them under Obama. You thought Bush was bad. This is not one of Obama's "pets"
I say get over it!!!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 31, 2010 - 06:28pm PT
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Lois wrote: n case you have not notice, BobA, this is NOT a trivial issue.
I say get over it!!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 09:25pm PT
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Um, Ken, you did not answer my point at all. And if you edited books on statistics you surely understand my point. Also then you must see that I said nothing about the number of doctors or volunteers at the hospital, just the number who's behavior Michelle Obama may have changed.
Actually, you did not. You simply made up speculation. I could speculate about what kind of climber you are, about what ascents you have made, about what skills you have. That doesn't make any of it true. You would be right to demand that I back up my speculation with proof.
I'm doing the same with you.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 09:27pm PT
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Exactly how "private" could the phone call have been if we all know about it. Sounds more to me like he took a rather public stand on it else we would not be talking about it today.
I don't know if you are simply being disingenuous to take an opportunity to swipe at the President, or are truly ignorant, but the phone call was widely reported to have been reported to the press by the OTHER PARTY on the phone call.
The White House has barely gone beyond discussing that the call took place.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 09:36pm PT
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Apparently Obama does not think the dog thing was such terribly big deal so and weighs in to support Vick. I will say it again, since you missed it the first time
Well, since you apparently were not a part of the phone call, I don't think that you can reasonably state what he said. The press reports on this clearly state that he repudiated Vick's criminal behavior. President Obama apparently believes in the Christian concept of REDEMPTION, when a person has paid their debt to society, shown sincere remorse, and has shown an ongoing attempt to atone for his bad behavior.
I didn't miss your lie the first time, and it is still a lie the second time.
Out of curiosity, Ken, what do you, personally, think of dogs?
LEB, I'll pass on your attempt to divert the discussion from the issue at hand.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 09:40pm PT
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If I am "torturing" you, Ken, vis-a-vue offering an opinion to which you disagree, it says much more about you than it does me.
Oh, I don't view it that way. However, you have posted on several occasions that you are "teaching" us. And you clearly enjoy baiting and putting down people, accusing them of mental illnesses, alcoholism, drug abuse....conveniently when they react to the non-sequitors and ill-logic that makes it so difficult to discuss things rationally with you. You keep coming back, so you must enjoy it.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 09:44pm PT
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Ken,
I knew if I read enough of your posts, I'd find something with which I'd agree. Your post on the President and Michael Vick was right on target. Thanks much for a clear and cogent argument.
John, I was touched by your post.
I can only imagine the struggle that was involved in your climb back up. I applaud what you've done. It is far more impressive than just going out and doing something, when you've got a cement anchor on your leg.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 31, 2010 - 09:53pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 09:54pm PT
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Bob,
I would say you are a perfect example of the phenomenon I speak of and, in fact, I would rank you third from the top of libs who are totally out of control with respect to posting on ST.
LEB, this is just an example of what YOU were accusing others of earlier, and which I'll talk about a bit: Ad Hominem attacks:
Ad hominem abuse (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to invalidate his or her argument.
The ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy.
Kettle, meet pot.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:10pm PT
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I was just floored by the put-down of Bob D. I am continually humbled by the people with whom I'm able to interact on this site. I like to think I've done a few things, and know a few things, but come on.....the comparison is just not reasonable. And for a non-climber to be criticizing, on a climbing forum......<shaking my head>
On a more positive note, because of one of my posts of a Wikileaks evaluation event in LA, I'm going to be meeting Tony Bird, who is also going. Isn't that sort of outcome the best part of posting here?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:18pm PT
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Ken M wrote: I was just floored by the put-down of Bob D. I am continually humbled by the people with whom I'm able to interact on this site.
Thanks Ken, Lois means very little to me. I have the respect of people on this site that I want...that is all that really matters.
As to Lois...facts mean nothing...emotional tirades do. The Vick/Obama dog phone conversation being one. She is so far off the mark it is laughable.
She is also the queen of trolls...18,000 posts and counting. You go girl.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:22pm PT
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LEB -Hey! Happy New Year! 2011!
Why not celebrate another orbit of the planet around our star!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:46pm PT
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To implement this sort of system - which works so well here on the reservation - it would have to begin small and then grow as more and more people chose it. It would be very expensive to start it and it would require a lot of changes from what people have grown used to.
LEB, I'm going to say again, because you seem to not understand, that what you are experiencing is not a rare phenomenon in the western US, and elsewhere. A large portion of the US already experiences this. The military already experiences this. The VA already experiences this. Work Comp systems in a lot of states experience this.
To give you some background, research Ross-Loos Medical Group. This was started as an employer-based prepaid health services plan in Los Angles.
It was started in 1929, and was the progenitor of all Health Maintenance Organizations. Over several years many other employee groups, mostly governmental, joined the plan. Ross-Loos was so successful that the first small medical office on Grand Avenue in Los Angeles expanded into an enormous organization with 29 medical offices and a large multi-specialty hospital on Temple Street in Los Angeles by 1979.
In 1980, Ross-Loos Medical Group was purchased by the Insurance Company of North America (INA)and then merged with Connecticut General (CG).
The new company used the initials of the two companies CG and INA to create the new company: CiGna or CIGNA now one of the largest health care companies in the US.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:46pm PT
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F,
Every body knows your claim to fame is books on pebble wraslin
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:55pm PT
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corniss
Ken - if you look a little deeper into the health care issue of UofChicago hospital Urban Health Initiative dumping poor patients you'll find its true, and that she was in the
middle of giving it Chicago Machine efficiency you admire.
I actually know physicans from this institutions who were there during this period of time, and they tell me this is hogwash. They are first person witnesses. So, I guess we'll see. Hannity can make all the allegations he wants. I guess the House can start issuing subpoenas....but if they do NOT start issueing them, that says to me, there is nothing there, and they know it. We'll know pretty fast, I'd think.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:56pm PT
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Lois wrote: I am aware that the military and the VA use this sort of a system.
This is what is really scary about Lois, who is supposed be up on medical care in the US.
The VA is consider the best health care system in the US.
http://www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=1069
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:56pm PT
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ONLY reason it WON'T work is because of the fuking GREEDY bastards out there that WON'T let something that HELPS the MASSES be put into play...
Locker, you got it EXACTLY right.
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