Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Licky
Mountain climber
California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
|
Sula, I have not only the history of the aircraft from the FAA from its first build to its final before it crashed, but I have images of the plane when owned by its different owners. I have traced the wing tips, landing gear, and engines to a single PV-1 Ventura that was owned by the Royal Canadian Air Force during WWII. Here is is getting refueled as a PV-1 Ventura after the war when it was converted to an air maping aircraft in Canada
An interesting point. After the FAA sent me the history of ownership, I waited two years and then submitted a FOIA request to the FAA for all files, photos, sketches, and field notes for said aircraft. The response was, "sorry, but we cannot find any files on this aircraft." No? Its because they sent me the originals! Another case of the Feds screwing the pooch in this case
Of course this is of little interest to guys like sidmo.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2015 - 08:16am PT
|
^Hopefull they were signed. At some point after the book becomes famous, you can sell them on The PawnStarz.
I'm gonna give you a little more of that "dime" bag just for persistence in dealing with the govt bureaucracy all this time. I don't know if they will allow it for sale on the TV show.
|
|
Licky
Mountain climber
California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
|
Z, along that note, using the FOIA request I traveled to the Yosemite Archive Department. It was a warehouse within a warehouse. Secret key codes, a handler that insisted we wear white gloves to handle the thousands of documents that we requested. I was told I could not photocopy any pages that I wanted, but it was ok for me to photograph them (go figure). We came across many "final reports", but none of the supporting reports or notes. When asked where those were, we were met with, "Well, I have no idea". Stonewall or ineptness? Take your pick. Near the end of the day the office manager, our handler mentioned that she thought they might have piece of the plane on a shelf and would we like to see it. But of course! There it was, 2'x3' twisted blue aluminum with primer green on the other side. "Can I take a photo of it"? No, sorry.
These people live in their own very little world and have rules that they have created. We were told that no videos could be made in the Park that might give a negative image of the US Park Service.
These are the kind of road blocks that have been in place since I started my research.
|
|
cuvvy
Sport climber
arkansas
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 12:37am PT
|
Thank you for those photos. Will be an interesting book as Ive said before.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 01:04pm PT
|
Hi Ric:
Feel free to call me zb and stay focused on your book, though I enjoy hearing about it as it's being constructed.
Regarding those calculations I did above, if the numnbers were reversed as some apparently knowledgeable folks assert (i.e. govt 1500 and the rest to the 'free market') then thats a lot more trips down the hill.
Similarly, the use of real 'govt' mules could distort the calculations also.
|
|
Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 03:16pm PT
|
Licky posted:
The wing was found first found by Ron Lykins on January 29, 1977
So the crash was the result of an in-flight structural failure (left wing separated)? Was the cause of this ever determined?
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 03:20pm PT
|
The NTSB investigation was cursory, at best. They were too busy stuffing
their pockets, too.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 03:26pm PT
|
For all you smuggling aficionados out there. The 60 Minutes Coronado Company segment is now posted on Youtube in better quality than I've seen before.
It was a much larger operation and as far as I can tell did not have any long term positive effect on the world, though it has provided George Clooney with the fodder for a new film he is working on (working title "American High"?).
Mike Wallace understates the gross revenues of the operation by about 50% (200 million is likely). I will also fault his usage of the term "mob". There is no reasonable interpretation of the Coronado Co. as a mob, though the people they dealt with in Baja would certainly qualify in classic American criminal parlance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K18hJj-Xja8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnqW4GPT4ZQ
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 03:51pm PT
|
Mr. Lykins has stated that he and friends found the wing in Illilouette Valley, reported it to the park service and the PS went up in helicopters and found the rest of the plane in LMPL.
When are you dating the crackdown and trail side arrest of two well known climbers with full packs who were not convicted due to an illegal search?
And just how much did those packs weigh? Anyone.
|
|
Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 06:26pm PT
|
Who was the ex Marine that got busted at Happy Isles on his way out the week before Easter? I heard his pack straps broke so they just used cord to wrap the 100lb pack to his body.
Well?
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
|
^Dates of busts and dismissals.
I'd be really surprised if Ric doesn't have that info. I've seen it and I haven't spent that much time poking around. I'll try to recall where it was that I saw it. It might even be in this thread.
|
|
Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 07:34pm PT
|
I also heard about the unfortunate who arrived after the gold rush when the lake was on lockdown by LEO. The first-hand story I heard was that the would-be-scavengers ended up looting the LEO camp and walked off with their bacon!
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
|
Ric: Judge Pitts died July 31, 2014. Did you ever interview him?
Wer hat das schwarze Buch? Herr Dorn?
|
|
Licky
Mountain climber
California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
|
Jack Dorn had one of three black books. The Feds only knew about one. I know the location of the two others and have seen one of them. Dorn's book was eventually delivered to the DEA office in Reno. Lee Shackleton discussed at great length the book and what they went through to get it to the DEA.
I did interview Judge Pitts. In 2008 I was asked to present to the Yosemite Association the results of my research. It was held at Yosemite in the theater with about 250 employees of Yosemite. Shackleton and Pitts were in the front row, dead center. Vern Clevenger was sitting right behind them with a great big smile on his face. It was him and a friend that was busted and then released by Pitts for illegal search.
|
|
Licky
Mountain climber
California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2015 - 08:39pm PT
|
I don't have that date. I interviewed Vern and Bill and neither could give me a date. If you have something I'm all ears
|
|
Licky
Mountain climber
California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2015 - 08:55pm PT
|
I don't have official confirmation of the date that Bill & Vern got popped on the trail, but what I've been able to find is April 13, 1977.
As for the discovery of the wing. I have a copy of the action report that was filed when Ron Lykins came in. Now if there are any stories of discovering the plane and its load prior to January 29th, it has not been provided to me by anyone. Please remember, I need to be able to substantiate these stories with at least three people or an offical document.
I have heard about Nadim Melkonian, but no one seems to be very specific about the story. I have only one source which I believe is very credible, but I need more than just one.
|
|
Licky
Mountain climber
California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2015 - 09:50pm PT
|
Yes, Vern and a guy named I'll use the name Bill (who wants to remain unknown) were the only two that were busted for bringing down any dope. I have interviewed Vern and Bill. Vern is totally open to the conversation. Judge Pitts confirmed the event.
So I say to you, if you have any further information or can provide dates and times and names, please do so.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2015 - 07:26am PT
|
Well it was a sunnny day and they did not arrest the mule. Said mule and affiliated chainsaws were eventually returned to their rightful homes though.
It's possible that Judge Pitts himself asked the question, "Did you read him his rights?" and responded "Dismissed" when he got the answer.
I am a little concerned because I thought I saw some dates associated with this momentous event somewhere. I'll keep looking. Good thing I'm not writing a book.
The Jack Dorn story is the most interesting thing I've seen in this area in some time. May not be the redeeming social value sought in yesteryear, but scandal is always interesting.
Take, for example, the decomissioning of the San Onofre nuclear power plant. Approximately 75% of the 4.4 billion cost is being passed on to ratepayers.
Good thing that wing didn't fall off near here.
Reilly is right (that dude knows his aviation) the great smugglers got their payloads out of the cross border vessels and onto the highways and byways as soon as possible.
Woodie Guthrie and the Grateful Dead even did a song about it. Goin' down the road feeling bad.
"Going where the water tastes like wine"
More fodder for the trivia cannon.
The Judge’s "bible" is the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR),
which lists a substantial number of the criminal offenses for National
Parks. There is one page devoted entirely to Yosemite. For example,
did you know it is illegal to fish from horseback in Yosemite National Park?
Notice that it does not discuss mules.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
|
^Could very well be tWarbler. Next time Ric goes off interviewing the judiciary, we need to prime him with the questions we want answered.
The contents of the three black books is what interests me the most from the set of recent revelations, that and the untimely, if not downright suspicious, demise of Mr. Dorn.
Also, I really do not know how much weight a fully laden mule can carry, but I'd like to know how much of it's burden made it into the evidence locker (no that one) and where it went thereafter.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2015 - 05:30pm PT
|
^^^ looks more like a burro.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!