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healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 15, 2016 - 01:56am PT
Free tuition is the more likely of the two. Single payer healthcare is hard and unlikely in the near term because the cancers that are the for-profit insurance and large-scale providers have basically metastasized throughout the body of healthcare and can no longer be surgically excised and the chemo treatment option is prevented by all their protectors in congress.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 07:02am PT
healyje posted
Free tuition is the more likely of the two. Single payer healthcare is hard and unlikely in the near term because the cancers that are the for-profit insurance and large-scale providers have basically metastasized throughout the body of healthcare and can no longer be surgically excised and the chemo treatment option is prevented by all their protectors in congress.

It's also more likely that I'll live on Mars than Jupiter. I don't think Democrats realize the hole that they are in. A president is not going to make any of this stuff happen and meanwhile a regressive, conservative agenda is being pushed forward at the local, county and state level all across this country.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 15, 2016 - 07:34am PT
We can't have *single payer* healthcare here.

We get either Democrat healthcare, or Republican healthcare.

We have Democrat healthcare right now.

Do you think Republicans can do better?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:29am PT
Chaz posted
We can't have *single payer* healthcare here.

We get either Democrat healthcare, or Republican healthcare.

We have Democrat healthcare right now.

Do you think Republicans can do better?


Would could easily have single payer healthcare. And what we have right now is the old version Republican healthcare implemented by Democrats. It's actually working a lot better than our old system. It would be even better than that if Republicans would be willing to fix it.


The new version of Republican healthcare is neither.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:46am PT
Instead, most of you are simply eating it up as opposed to stepping back and realizing the cause and effect of a system whereby the government is involved in every single aspect of your life.
    Escpoeta

Yeah, I hate how the Republicans want to control what you do in your own bedroom.

And they want to tell you who you can love and marry. Pathetic.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:46am PT
"Would could easily have single payer healthcare."

Not as long as the government is controlled by Democrats and Republicans, we can't.

Obamacare is exactly what we get when Democrats are running things.

Republicans sure as hell aren't going to deliver any *single payer* plan, unless of course that single payer is you.

You would be just as successful praying to Jesus for the healthcare reform you want as you would be voting for Democrats and Republicans.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:51am PT
We get either Democrat healthcare, or Republican healthcare.

We have Democrat healthcare right now.

Wait, wasn't the ACA modeled after a Republican's system?
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:58am PT
K-man asks

Wait, wasn't the ACA modeled after a Republican's system?

YES, It was the conservative Heritage Foundation that first pushed the idea of "accepting personal responsibility" for one's own healthcare rather than letting it become a society problem.

The ACA mandates personal responsibility, even including fines for not being responsible.

In fact, if you read the 3000 pages of the legislation it is all "free market", "choice"

but because it was signed into law by a Democrat all those great conservative ideals are no good anymore
Jorroh

climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 09:12am PT
Yes, Norton.

Even now, it's impossible to find a conservative who will concede that Obamacare, as put forward by the administration, was a gigantic gesture of compromise to the Republicans.

Their reaction to it tells you all you need to know about the modern conservative movement.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 15, 2016 - 09:19am PT
To me, it's a sad and ugly joke when I hear Republicans say they want to unify us.

Then, they go out of their way to do the exact opposite.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:01am PT
Chaz posted
Obamacare is exactly what we get when Democrats are running things.

Exactly. The best possible outcome given the political reality of democracy and the modern Republican party. You mean this as a condemnation not realizing it's a compliment.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:07am PT
Don't change the subject.

Obamacare isn't *single payer* healthcare, which is what was being addressed.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:18am PT
I'm curious if there is a limit to what some would allow government to dictate or provide in the carrying out of your life?

Is there a boundary there somewhere?

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:20am PT
Chaz posted
Obamacare isn't *single payer* healthcare, which is what was being addressed.

That's not up for debate. It's also not what your comment was talking about. You've traditionally been a conservative voice on these forums, Chaz. Are you coming out for Sanders' healthcare plan?



Escopeta posted
I'm curious if there is a limit to what some would allow government to dictate or provide in the carrying out of your life?

Is there a boundary there somewhere?

Lucky for you, straw men are still wholly unregulated.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:28am PT
Modern governments merely corner the market on violence within a set of arbitrary lines drawn in the dirt. All power flows from the threat of this violence.

The trick is to let the sheep believe they're free to some extent while strolling about the pasture within these imaginary lines.

Gov't is an extortion scheme. We'll protect you and you'll pay me or I'll kill/imprison you.

There are bad, brown sheep, in the next pasture that we must be protected from. Those sheep eat their own babies and eat rocks instead of grass.

Some of the grass in this pasture makes you feel good, but NO, it is BAaaaaaaad. We must ban this kind of grass to keep us safe.

Wait.... there was a book about this....
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:34am PT
Yep. Don't worry, I'll just put in the tip.....
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:38am PT
I'm curious if there is a limit to what some would allow government to dictate or provide in the carrying out of your life?

Is there a boundary there somewhere?

Yes:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Too bad conservatives skip this part.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:38am PT
I doubt he's interested in that.

What? You are saying that there is no issue that Bernie ACTUALLY cares about, that he would not want to be put in charge of for the entire country?

Sec of Treasury?

Health and Human Services?

Education Dept?

In other words, if Bernie doesn't win, he is folding his tent and going home, giving up on everything that he days that he passionately cares about????

What a superficial jerk!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:50am PT
Too bad conservatives skip this part.

So, what your saying is there is no limit? Or what?

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 10:53am PT
Ken M- Yes that's sort of what I mean. Sanders has stood up for some righteous ideas, but he's done absolutely nothing to build the political revolution he keeps talking about. Why isn't there a robust Democratic Socialist party in Vermont? Because he puts most of his energy into his own career and not into creating a true movement. Obama has not been a strong party leader for Democrats and nobody is filling in the void. Democrats have a hollow foundation where there used to be a very strong one. We need a party leader that actually invests time and energy into building the party. None of Sanders' ideas come to fruition without a strong Democratic presence at the local and state levels for decades. He's going about his "political revolution" in the entirely wrong way if he really expects to win.

Now I don't think he's actually going to "go home" and that would be the wrong thing for him to do. Taking a cabinet position would be exactly the WRONG thing for him to do if he wants to build a revolution. He would become an extension of Clinton's will and little more. If his goal is revolution he will continue to be a movement leader and to build a strong foundation of support for his ideas and inspire people to run for office and lobby on those ideas.

Liberals are banking entirely on the "great man" theory wherein Sanders gets elected and everything changes. It's an absurd idea that Obama proved entirely wrong.
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