Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 2081 - 2100 of total 2200 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
seano

Mountain climber
none
Feb 14, 2019 - 08:38am PT
Interesting map of what various cities will be like in 2080 if things continue apace: https://fitzlab.shinyapps.io/cityapp/

Based on this Nature paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-08540-3

Sure looks grim for the Rockies and Southwest.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 17, 2019 - 08:26am PT
TED Talk by glaciologist Kristin Poinar discussing numerical simulation of crevasse aquifers within the Greenland Ice Sheet...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Feb 17, 2019 - 08:32pm PT
The complete loss of ice on the Arctic Ocean could mean as much as 16 C (29 F) rise in temperatures in Greenland within as little as 10 years; leading to the complete loss of glaciers there:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Wikipedia says 8 C (14.4 F) over a period of 40 years is more typical:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dansgaard%E2%80%93Oeschger_event
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Feb 17, 2019 - 10:37pm PT
hey there say, tuolumne_tradster... say, the TED talk on greenland, was
very interesting...

thank you for sharing... :)

as to the next poster, cliff:
did not see the next video, yet... will try to, soon...

:)
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 18, 2019 - 01:11pm PT
The first report warning about climate change was sent to President Johnson in 1965. In the 54 years since, we've made essentially no progress.

I'm pretty pessimistic but that overstates it a bit.

Because of worries about climate change, solar power windmills, and electric cars got enough subsidies to be competitive much sooner than they would have otherwise.

Without climate change worries, Europe and America would be building more coal plants.

Our progress is nowhere on the scale it needs to be to address the problem. However, coal and oil are fairly cheap to extract. If the world had truly continued on a 'business as usual' scenario since 1965, things would be even worse than they are now.

So we've taken some 'baby steps' to address the problem. But when I look into my crystal ball to predict what is going to happen in the short to medium term, I don't see anything more substantial than 'baby steps'.
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Feb 19, 2019 - 09:23am PT
That last cartoon pretty much summarizes the climate deniers. I was just at a dinner party where I was talking with a retired Colorado University engineering professor who described himself as a climate skeptic rather than a denier, as if that made much difference. What he definitely wasn't was an "alarmist" as he explained.

The only thing that doesn't ring true is the last panel in the cartoon strip. I personally don't think that climate deniers and skeptics will admit that they were wrong in the face of any future evidence, including the dire effects from climate change.

By nature humans aren't good at thinking long-term. It has to be learned.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 19, 2019 - 11:05am PT
I don't think many climate deniers will admit they are wrong either. If it becomes inescapable to conclude that something should have been done, they will pretend that they always agreed with that.

But I do hope that some of the climate deniers that posts on sites like this one have grand kids. And when they tell their grand kids they were actually one of the ones concerned about climate change, their grand kids can track down their posts and declare bull *** on them.*


*Take life's little victories where you can find them.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 19, 2019 - 02:06pm PT
RE: "baby steps"

On a national level, I'd say these are quite tiny steps.
The theory of baby steps assumes there is an overall ultimate goal. Much of the US does not have any such goal. Only a few green states, who are acting unilaterally to drive up their own costs.

The average fuel economy of light duty vehicles has risen only from 19.5mpg in 1991 to 22mpg in 2016. A pitifully small increase. It actually decreased from 1986 to 2007.
https://www.bts.gov/content/average-fuel-efficiency-us-light-duty-vehicles
https://www.treehugger.com/cars/90-years-us-fuel-economy-data-shows-power-incentives.html
http://www.umich.edu/~umtriswt/EDI_sales-weighted-mpg.html
http://www.umich.edu/~umtriswt/PDF/SWT-2017-5.pdf
The increase from 1973 to 1988 was mostly due to increased cost of oil.
Some of these data is the average for the entire fleet (not the same as the latest model year).


The decrease in coal energy in most areas is largely due to cheaper natural gas plants & fracking. Yet the leaks and impacts of natural gas production are even more hidden than those of coal, and remain unaccounted for.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 20, 2019 - 08:01pm PT
GoPro7 time lapse of rock - ice - water interaction at 1 atmposphere during heating by a distant fusion source...
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Rock sample is pre-Cambrian Pinto Gneiss from Joshua Tree
Time lapse compresses 2 hours of images taken every 0.5 second into ~ 1 minute video.

Note how melt front expands outward from the rock to meet the melt interface that is moving inward from the concrete bird bath rim. The rock sinks as the ice melts downward.

Here is the same set up showing GoPro7 camera in bird bath with meta-chert rock sample...
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Feb 21, 2019 - 02:26pm PT

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/21/philadelphia-covanta-incinerator-recyclables-china-ban-imports
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Feb 22, 2019 - 05:10pm PT

^^^ Ha... Read that one yesterday. Lousy writing, and the dude can’t do basic math, but the message is there.

This one, from a couple of years ago, is a little bit better.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170418-how-western-civilisation-could-collapse
yosemite 5.9

climber
santa cruz
Feb 25, 2019 - 07:48pm PT








California has always had fuel for forest fires. Global warming probably has less to do with the degree of damage from recent fires than does the populating of forested areas, lazy utility companies and people who don't want their trees trimmed even if near the power lines.

Only recently in our Santa Cruz Mountains have residents in general realized the need to trim their trees, after the disastrous fires in recent years.

What about China, India and other countries that seem to pollute? Do you remember the bad air during the Olympics in China?

Have you ever been cold? Really, really cold? Have you ever experienced temperatures below zero Farenheit? Have you experienced frostbite? I have. Many people, plants and animals die during harsh winters. In the 1970's scientists thought we were entering a new ice age. They were obviously wrong. But harsh winters are indeed dangerous.

Also, people build on the beaches of the oceans!!! How stupid can they be? And they seem offended by a hurricane and then want government help.

Yes, the climate seems to be warmer. Some of it may have to do with increased solar activity as documented by NASA. But some of the damages that are blamed on it are also connected to a lot of foolish behavior.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 26, 2019 - 06:51am PT
The Trump administration is planning to create an ad hoc group of federal scientists to reassess and counter the government's conclusions on climate change, The Washington Post reported Sunday.

The National Security Council (NSC) initiative would feature scientists who challenge the seriousness of climate change and the degree to which humans are the cause of climate problems, three unidentified administration officials told the Post.

The Post reported that the plan was discussed by administration officials on Friday in the White House Situation Room.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/431330-white-house-committee-to-reassess-climate-science-conclusions
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 26, 2019 - 10:49am PT
^^^ what sketch means is trumpy has appointed a 3 ring circus of anti-science denialist kook clowns whose wisdom comes from drinking tar ball cocktails from oil field spills.

Willam Happer chief idiot denier: "“It’s not a pollutant at all," Happer says of CO2. "We should be telling the scientific truth, that more CO2 is actually a benefit to the earth.”

Happer, 79, has a long list of scientific papers in distinguished journals on optics and atomic physics, but has no training on climate science and has never published a paper in a peer-reviewed journal on climate change.

“Happer would be a fringe figure even for climate skeptics,” said retired U.S. Navy Rear Adm. David Titley, now a professor of meteorology at Pennsylvania State University.

Even Judith Curry (who has devoted years to "skepticism") thinks Happer is a nutjob.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/02/trump-presidential-climate-security-committee/
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 26, 2019 - 11:02am PT
California has always had fuel for forest fires. Global warming probably has less to do with the degree of damage from recent fires than does the populating of forested areas, lazy utility companies and people who don't want their trees trimmed even if near the power lines.

Absolutely. There is just no way that climate change made any difference. I'm sure it was a total coincidence that Paradise CA had received just 0.88 inches of rain between May 1 and Nov 8 (the start of the fire) compared with a historical average of over 7 inches during the same period. Not that having less than 1/7 of the rainfall is a concern. It's all the fault of PG&E.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2018/11/09/weather-climate-behind-blazing-inferno-that-wrecked-paradise/?utm_term=.d1fda8479a29
TLP

climber
Feb 26, 2019 - 08:16pm PT
The Earth has always had CO2 in the atmosphere. Global warming has everything to do with lazy people who don’t want to get better mileage in their SUVs even if it’s rapidly ruining the global environment.

Only recently in the U.S. have people in general realized the need to do something about it, after disastrous events clearly linked to ongoing global warming.

What about China, India and other countries that definitely pollute a lot (too)? Definitely a problem, but how likely does it seem that they’ll make significant reductions in emissions if countries like the U.S. don’t take a leadership role in making our own significant reductions?

Have you ever been hot? Really, really hot? Have you ever experienced temperatures exceeding 125 degrees F? Have you experienced heatstroke? I have. Many people, plants, and animals die during extreme heat waves. Arrhenius showed all the way back in 1896 that increase in CO2 driven by industrialization would cause the global climate to get warmer. He was obviously right. Increase in global temperature, and more importantly the alterations of climatic patterns that result from it (including polar cold where it previously rarely occurred), is indeed dangerous.

Also, people try to claim that the temperature increase may have to do with increased solar activity (even though numerous scientific publications and the NASA web site show this is false). How stupid can they be? And they seem offended when they are urged to actually learn the science and adapt their opinions to it.

Yes, the climate is definitely, unequivocally, significantly warmer. And nearly ALL of it has to do with human activity as documented in hundreds of peer reviewed scientific publications. And yes, a lot of the damages it causes result from climate change denying politicians (curiously enough, every one of them Republican) in, say, coastal states like Florida and North Carolina refusing to institute local policies that would reduce the public’s exposure to the increased risks.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 27, 2019 - 11:40am PT
House Republicans managed to quash Democrats' hearing on climate change on Tuesday by outvoting the majority party at the poorly attended event, forcing it to adjourn only minutes after it began.

The hearing of the House Natural Resources panel was to be the latest to dive into climate change since Democrats took control of the House last month, bringing new attention to the issue they complained Republicans had ignored during their eight years leading the chamber. The hearing was designed to probe the "denial playbook" that Democrats say fossil fuel backers have copied from cigarette companies — the same tactics used by opioid makers and the National Football League to dispute strong scientific evidence.


But Texas Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert — a staunch conservative who has claimed warm temperatures during the Viking age disproved climate change science — took issue with notion that the topic was within the panel's jurisdiction. He quickly motioned to adjourn the hearing before the witnesses could even deliver their opening statements.

That motion quickly passed, with the four Republicans present outvoting the two Democrats in the room, including Oversight and Investigations subcommittee Chairman T.J. Cox.

Derp
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Mar 1, 2019 - 09:28pm PT
Thanks for the excellent links Malemute. Arctic News thinks it may happen much faster:

A rise of 18°C or 32.4°F by 2026?
A catastrophe of unimaginable proportions is unfolding. Life is disappearing from Earth and all life could be gone within one decade. Study after study is showing the size of the threat, yet many people seem out to hide what we're facing.

In the Arctic alone, four tipping points look set to be crossed within a few years:

Loss of the Arctic sea ice's ability to act as a buffer to absorb incoming ocean heat
Loss of Arctic sea ice's ability to reflect sunlight back into space (albedo)
Destabilization of sediments at the seafloor of the Arctic Ocean
Permafrost melt

Crossing these tipping points triggers a number of feedbacks to kick in, including even more absorption of heat by the Arctic Ocean, further changes to the Jet Stream resulting in even more extreme weather, seafloor methane release, water vapor feedback and emissions from land such as CH₄ (methane), N₂O (nitrous oxide) and NOx (nitrogen oxide), due to permafrost melt, storms and forest fires. Temperatures also threaten to rise strongly over the next few years as sulfate cooling falls away while more black carbon and brown carbon gets emitted as more wood gets burned and more forest fires occur.

A recent study points at yet another tipping point, i.e. the disappearance of marine stratus clouds, which could result in a global temperature rise of eight degrees Celsius (8°C or 14.4°F) . In the model used in the study, the tipping point starts to occur at 1,200 ppm CO₂e, i.e. a stack of greenhouse gases including CH₄, N₂O, CO₂ and H₂O.

http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/
TLP

climber
Mar 2, 2019 - 09:26am PT
all life could be gone within one decade.
As someone who is completely convinced of the reality of climate change and the drastic disruptions of the human and biological realms, I find it counterproductive that anyone who's trying to achieve anything would write such drivel, and wouldn't waste an instant reading the rest of it for that reason. Come on, how is even drastic climate change going to alter the environment around deep sea hydrothermal vents so much that all of the multicellular and bacterial life there is extinguished? What about surficial volcanic hot springs and the thermophilic bacteria that thrive in them at temperatures exceeding 100 degrees C? Those are going to be lifeless in 10 years?
Dave

Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
Mar 3, 2019 - 06:16am PT
I was at a conference last week and saw an enlightening talk - wish I could post a couple of the slides.

US CO2 emissions and energy usage are barely 10% of the world total, and have fallen every year since 2008. Asia CO2 emissions and energy usage, meanwhile, have at least doubled and make up more than 60% of the world total.

Where should the energy (so to speak) be focused?
Messages 2081 - 2100 of total 2200 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta