Rancher +Militia vs BLM,trouble on the range.(OT)

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couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:25am PT


Keep accepting the media version boyz, but while you consider: another black mans views: maybe he's a xenophobe and a whatever:



[Click to View YouTube Video]

hard to hear from all the background noise.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:26am PT
Ron, do yourself a favor, stop defending Bundy....even the moronic shock jocks can see that it's a no win situation.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:26am PT


And some more of the same: http://www.infowars.com/black-marines-cliven-bundy-is-not-racist/print/

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:28am PT
..and from this link http://www.theburningplatform.com/2014/04/10/clive-bundy-making-a-stand-against-goverment-thugs/ we have this:

"Mr. Bundy’s daughter Shiree Bundy Cox in a letter explains the feud from the family’s perspective:

“I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it s in a nut shell. My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars. The rights to the land use are called preemptive rights. Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the Bureau of Land Management.

They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches. My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these monies against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with they’re own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a penance he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job. He quit paying the BLM and tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down. So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes.

In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well when buying him out didn’t work, they used the endangered species card. You’ve already heard about the desert tortoise. Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years. Now they’re desperate. It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff. Everything their doing at this point is illegal and totally against the Constitution of the United States of America. Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle belong to him, regardless of where they are they are my father’s property.

His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed. Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it. They think they can take them over two borders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfield Auction and sell them. All this with our tax money. They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars. See how slick they are? Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks”"

I don't see her addressing the 2 Bundy losses in Federal court, so I'm not siding with Bundy here, but there are alternative views, and heres' a few.

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:29am PT


so I leave you boyz with your name calling circle jerk...ta ta...


philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:31am PT
I vote for a real-world celebrity grudge match to see once and for all who has the hardest brain in the sandbox


Well since public land managers at climbing areas require me to where a helmet to protect the rocks I'd wager that my head is thickest but at least it's not stuck in the sand and thinking inside the box like Lil Chuffer's.



Pooh Head ha ha hahhahhahhahaha.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:34am PT
yes, this is a proven winning strategy!

find a couple of people out of 330 million here in the US who say Bundy not racist

and it is especially helpful if they are non white people, because their opinion really matters

post it

and then conclude, smugly, that the other 98% of America is wrong that he is a racist

works every time

in kindergarten
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:34am PT
Couchmaster whitesplained
Clearly this Black Bodyguard who sees the man daily needs to talk to a few of you, although you'd most likely just call him some racist name in anger.

Ah yes. The old "guys it's not racist cause my black friend said it was cool" defense. What you seem to be missing is that it's possible to be a kindly old gentleman and also be really racist. America was founded by really smart, really good, really racist people. I'm sure Cliven is just a peach to be around. He's also extremely racist.

Musing whether or not black people were better off a slaves is racist. Period. Trying to excuse someone for saying it is racist. Period. Insisting that the real racists are the ones calling Bundy out on his racism is racist. Stop excusing a culture of racism. You can in fact agree with someone about something and also acknowledge their racism. Biden calling Obama the "first clean, well spoken" black presidential candidate was racist. It doesn't mean Biden goes to secret meetings plotting the death of black people it just means that he encouraged a culture of racism. You can in fact acknowledge and alter your own racist behavior.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:39am PT
Bundy is a racist, a liar and a cheat and a welfare queen and his socialist cows need to be burgered.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:40am PT
Ron,
Yo mama so ugly, they changed Halloween to YoMamaween!

Yo daddy is so stupid that he spent twenty minutes lookin’ at an orange juice box because it said “concentrate”.

You mad bro?
You really did just stand up in the sandbox and scream "Don't talk about my parents, or I'm telling !"
Were you homeschooled or what?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:44am PT
That Ron doesn't care that Cliven is a racist.
Speaks volumes really.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:44am PT
It is drop dead hilarious that Cliven can muse during an interview about blacks being better off as slaves than living on government subsidy, while for twenty years he's been grazing his cattle for free on government land.

Hey Cliven, can you spell subsidy?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:45am PT
So if a black guy said slavery was justified that means it was totally cool? That's literally the logic that you guys are pitching here. I mean this isn't even subtle racism this is overt "black people are inherently unable to operate without white masters" racism and you guys are unable to call a spade a spade.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:55am PT
Ron, you can try to muddle the facts as much as you want. It won't work. You aligned yourself with a racist and your continued defense of Bundy makes it clear that you are a racist as well.

Which, of course, is no surprise to anyone familiar with your views.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:58am PT
Maybe closer to the truth here in figuring out why folks are supporting Bundy. An interesting letter from an alleged local under the story on the Burning Platform. I'll ask all you Philos and Bruce Kays to read it first and then comment. Instead of your usual methodology of reading the first sentence (which in this case will get you all ramped up at the swipe at Lincoln) and then a kneejeck emotional factless spew disputing what you think is said without reading in it's entirety. By the way, from my viewpoint this letter does not get me to believe that Bundy should be able to graze his cattle, it explains why so many others support him and is very interesting. Just trying to mix up the discourse here with some facts, to break up the name calling. Maybe I'm on the wrong site for that though.

"First-hand account from someone who is there, and seemingly knows a great deal. Copy and pasted from the link provided by MacGhil.

=

Nevada is over 90% federal land.

When the state was carved out right at the end of the civil war, Lincoln, (the worst constitutional president in our history prior to the current one) made sure that all the states entering would bow down to the the fed and our state constitution and the great amount of federal land reflects that.

Since most of the state is desert, ranchers have always had to use tremendous acreage to feed cattle here. Our state was brought into the union around 1865. Prior to that, and after that, up till 1934 ranchers had legal free reign to graze cattle with no restrictions. This was called forage rights.

In the 1930′s the ranchers had arguments between themselves regarding territories. So a few of the larger ones got together and asked the fed if they could hire them, by paying minimal fees to “manage” the land and break it out into sections. This was made into the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934.

The fees are minimal. $1.74 per cow & calf per month. Ranchers had no problem paying that just to have disagreements settled.

Ranchers were also required to secure water rights and maintain and make improvements on the land. Mr. Bundy and his predecessors have always done that. No one is arguing that fact.

Bundy’s ranch was established in 1877. His family purchased it later, in the 1880′s. But when they did, they had to PAY for the water and forage rights.

After the 1934 act they continued to pay grazing fees and make improvements up until the 1990′s.

Somewhere along the way the Bureau of Land Management was created. I don’t know what year.

Around 1990 or so they told him that he could no longer graze more than 150 of his 600 or so head of cattle there.

He told them to pound sand and kept paying his fees and grazing his cattle.

Around 1994 they told him he could only graze them in the summer, fall and winter and said it was so that the cattle didn’t disturb the Desert Tortoise. (more on that later)

He told them that they were HIRED by the Taylor Grazing act to MANAGE the land for the ranchers. So he FIRED them and started paying his fees to to the state of Nevada. Soon they didn’t know where to put it so they quit taking payments.

Meanwhile they came at him from another angle. When they saw they weren’t going to be able to force him off the land the BLM SOLD the rights to the land to the state of Nevada under the condition that the state RETIRE the grazing rights permanently. Nevada legislators, being idiots, did their bidding. That was around 1996 or so.

But the state left him alone and let him forage all those years.

A few years ago, due to Agenda 21, Ranchers around the nation were being shut down and either bought out (with a program that paid them a lump sum of YOUR taxpayer funds in exchange for quitting ranching.

A lot of them did. The program was touted as “optional” but they intimidated the ranchers with lawsuits ranging from environmental concerns to water concerns to endangered species.

Before all this there were 50 ranchers in Clark County Nevada. Now there is one. Cliven Bundy.

For 20 years they tried to remove another rancher, Mr Hage, from a neighboring county. The sheriff of that county came to his aid and told the feds to screw off. They threatened the sheriff with a swat team and he told them to bring it on, he had his own swat team. The feds screwed up with Mr Hage though. They made it a water rights issue and after 20 years, about a year after he died, they lost in court.

Now they don’t play the water rights card anymore because it is too cut and dry. They now play the environmental card because they can make up the rules and change them whenever they like.

This is what they have done with Bundy. Everytime he gets where he can win, they change the laws and he loses in court.

So now it is about the Desert Tortoise. This is an animal the BLM had a habitat for, but when they ran out of money to run the habitat they slaughtered 1800 of them. Miraculously they now claim they have mysteriously found 3 million dollars that they are paying to round up and steal Bundy’s cattle. They are paying the slimy for hire private cowboys 1 million of that.

So now they have a court order to take his cattle and auction them.

The sheriffs of nearby counties have stated that they will stop them along the way and make them produce a signed agreement from Bundy or they will confiscate the cattle and give them back. That only leaves them one route out, straight down through Clark County to Arizona or California. I believe they are already auctioning off any of the ones they found that were not branded even though it is common knowledge they are his because he is the only rancher there. There isn’t much the sheriffs can do about that.

When this happened in neighboring counties and in other states the sheriffs backed the ranchers up. Our Sheriff is a spineless puss of a half-man and refuses to get involved. I assume the only way he will get involved is if he hears the BLM rangers shooting civilians and sends his guys up to help out of jealousy of all the fun they are having. We have the most corrupt and worthless police department in the country.

To make matters worse, I spoke to the lesser of two evils running for Sheriff this time around yesterday at a luncheon and asked him why they weren’t helping. He answered that from his understanding Bundy was just a guy who wouldn’t pay his fees and he didn’t think they should get involved. He knew nothing of the Taylor Grazing act or any of the history of Bundy’s rights to graze. Great, replacing a worthless bag of skin for sheriff with another worthless bag of skin. We can’t win.

So now they are using helicopters to round up his cattle and try to take them to auction. He claims he has about 500 head, they say 900. Probably because they don’t know that the Taylor Grazing act counts a cow and a calf as one head. They are stressing the cattle and some of them are dying in the chase. That is why they brought in backhoes and dump trucks.

The people in the video above were trying to block them on private land before they got to public lands and were tazed and thrown to the ground.

The BLM has set up “free speech zones” for people to protest. Two 50×50 pig pens for them to stand in. But they can only use one of them at a time.

Bundy’s son was arrested day before yesterday when he pulled over on a STATE road where he could see the valley and take pictures of the way they were treating the cattle.

They threw him down to the ground, ground his head in the dirt with their boots, and took him to Henderson jail, then to the federal building. Eventually they gave him a ticket for protesting outside the “free speech zone” and “resisting arrest”. They let him go 80 miles away in Las Vegas with no money. He had a credit card which he used to trade some gas at a gas station for use of a lady’s cell phone, to get someone to pick him up.

Yesterday they arrested a few more protesters for being outside the “free speech zone”.

Militias from all over the nation are being called up to come to Nevada. People are flying and driving in from everywhere. This is the first time in our history where men from all over the country have been willing to come together to fight against the federal government. If this had happened at Waco, our entire country would be different today.

Politicians are afraid to say much. The republicans don’t want to say anything because he lost in federal court and that’s all that matters to those scumbags. The Democrats don’t care so much about the courts as they lavish in the idea that a fat rich rancher and destroyer of the environment is getting what he deserves.

The libertarians are all that’s left. And he has a LOT of support from Sheriffs and Oath Keepers. (other than our bag of skin)

The bottom line is the Feds want all ranching stopped. They are doing it on federal lands first, then will do it on private lands based on the new definitions in the clean water act. It’s an Agenda 21 implementation. It wouldn’t matter if he paid fees from here to kingdom come, they want him shut down and they will try any angle they can. He stated that after reading their plans to retire all the land for grazing he refused to finance his own demise by giving them fees. I’m with him 100%. And apparently so are thousands of others willing to come here."
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Apr 27, 2014 - 11:58am PT


couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 27, 2014 - 12:01pm PT

...and 2 more interesting links:


1st one has a map of drilling operations.

http://www.naturalnews.com/044670_BLM_lies_fracking_leases_Bundy_ranch.html#

2nd one is a biologist who says that the science suggests that cattle grazing is beneficial:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-livestock-grazing-stop-desertification/

That seems apropo here as the Taylor Grazing act was an attempt by the ranchers to stop the out of control overgrazing by everybody and their dog which helped move the dust bowl along.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 27, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
Locker, can I offer an answer as to what the video proves?
I think it proves that there is a narrative that blames the disenfranchisement of black americans on themselves as a group. I think that you, Locker, already understand the fallacy of that argument but it is no surprise that some people of color and most bigots would adopt that view based on their limited understanding of disenfranchisement and economic segregation.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Apr 27, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
Ron says:


Apr 27, 2014 - 08:56am PT
Nevadans are buying guns at a RAPID pace. In Fact the new store in Carson is headed for the #1 position of a LARGE franchise and we will be there within another week. So you B&B crowds should steer clear of this state from now and into the foreseeable future. It is after all, what you fear. things like freedom from oppressive govt actions will NO LONGER BE TOLERATED here.

Thinly veiled threats of violence and armed rebellion will get you in trouble. Might be time to take another break from the forum. Once again, you have shown yourself to be an unhinged, dangerous individual.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 27, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
Anita and Locker,
My name is brook. Maybe I'm the little stream?

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