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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:15pm PT
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bluering said HddJ, if you have no income, yeah I do. Wouldn't it remedy the problem?
What problem? Sorry, you lost me. And no income under what circumstances.
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:16pm PT
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Bluering, I am too drunk right now. Let's talk later.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
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For dimwits like Bluering the current, extreme concentration of wealth is presented as the natural order of things. Being dimwits they buy into the idea that any attempt to change this "natural order" is theft, tyranny, socialism etc etc blah blah blah.
In fact the process of wealth concentration is a direct and predictable consequence of
a) free market fundamentalism and its policy prescriptions
in combination with
b) A political system that responds primarily to money and its sources, rather than the needs of the american people as a whole.
The extent of wealth concentration in America is a problem. Any thinking person would be interested in understanding its causes and its consequences.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:19pm PT
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bluering said Suggesstions???
Allow people to negotiate through binding arbitration with the IRS a payment based on the annual net worth of the business over 10 years or something. That way if the business crashes hard they don't get stuck with a huge bill. They'd still be paying income tax on any earning from the business so I don't know that they would be able to easily dodge taxes this way, but if the person that dies has all the business smarts in the family the rest of the family shouldn't get hit so hard if the business tanks. If they sell the business then the IRS gets a cut of the sale based on the original net worth.
skipt said I don't think there should be an estate tax at all. Our children are going to need this wealth just to pay the bills all us idiots are leaving them.
Yes I'm sure the poor children inheriting 10 million dollars are struggling to pay those bills. Let's all have a moment of silence and shed a tear. And who is "our?" Is anyone here even coming close to paying the estate tax?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:22pm PT
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:23pm PT
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Skipt you seem to imagine a world where we get sent a bill for the national debt. We don't. We pay taxes. So you are saying let's not do the one thing that would actually help pay down the debt. If you don't tax people then the debt simply will never get paid because people don't get a bill...they go spend the money at the store....which doesn't pay down the debt either. What are you smoking? Are you suggesting that we should send people a bill for the debt instead of levying taxes? Here's your share! Pay up!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:24pm PT
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For dimwits like Bluering the current, extreme concentration of wealth is presented as the natural order of things. Being dimwits they buy into the idea that any attempt to change this "natural order" is theft, tyranny, socialism etc etc blah blah blah.
In fact the process of wealth concentration is a direct and predictable consequence of
a) free market fundamentalism and its policy prescriptions
in combination with
b) A political system that responds primarily to money and its sources, rather than the needs of the american people as a whole.
The extent of wealth concentration in America is a problem. Any thinking person would be interested in understanding its causes and its consequences.
While I admit I don't know as much about the tax code as others, I do know a cowardly anti-capitalist when I see one. They tend to stick out and I have a knack for spotting them.
Dimwit, huh? Hey, genius, why don't you move to Venezuala, Cuba, or f*#king North Korea and send me a postcard about the economic conditions there??? In fact, when, and if, you get a job there, tell me if you'd rather be working back here???
Dipshit!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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The guy who thought that there was an annual net worth tax is calling the other guy anti-capitalist. Heh. On the "commie" note, I'm off to bed.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
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There's no easy way out, Bluering. I've seen many solvent businesses forced to sell because of death taxes. This has been particularly true here in very capital-intensive fmaily businesses, like family farms.
Under current law, any death taxes can be paid over time, but it's virtually impossible to add even a 35% increase in debt and pay that debt at traditional levels of profit, even at very modest interest rates. (For those of you who haven't considered this, profit is the only source of business net debt repayment.)
The result of this has been a sharp decline in viable family farming. It's not at all clear to me that the problem is economies of scale. Rather it's the forced business dismemberment caused by high levels of death taxes.
Incidentally, dirtbag, by taxing income, we tax the change in income, thereby doing what we can to make sure that fewer people break through into the plutocracy.
John
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:29pm PT
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Incidentally, dirtbag, by taxing income, we tax the change in income, thereby doing what we can to make sure that fewer people break through into the plutocracy.
OK, but what does that have to do with the estate tax?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:39pm PT
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Have fun, boyz! Bluey out....
Good discussion though. Thanks John and HDDj.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:47pm PT
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Skipt..you are an idiot , troll , fool...gay capitalist pig...eat flaming death...rj
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:48pm PT
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Skipt...just kidding... trying to get you to go off again...hee , hee....rj
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:55pm PT
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Okay...when you least expect it...i have to go off on my daughter who's trying to guilt me for picking my nose...rj
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 17, 2010 - 02:19am PT
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If we had an honest and equal government all throughout our lives instead of
this monstrosity we have created no one would begrudge what another man
earns.
I don't begrudge what people earn. I do begrudge when those earnings are stolen. That's why I'm a socialist.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 17, 2010 - 02:30am PT
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suap, here's some FDR for you:
Yet our distress comes from no failure of substance. We are stricken by no plague of locusts. Compared with the perils which our forefathers conquered because they believed and were not afraid, we have still much to be thankful for. Nature still offers her bounty and human efforts have multiplied it. Plenty is at our doorstep, but a generous use of it languishes in the very sight of the supply. Primarily this is because the rulers of the exchange of mankind’s goods have failed, through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men.
True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence. They know only the rules of a generation of self-seekers. They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish.
The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.
Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits. These dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and to our fellow men.
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/
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Robb
Social climber
The other "Magic City on the Plains"
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Dec 17, 2010 - 02:39am PT
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That's a great graph AC, but where's 2009 and 2010?
Just askin'.
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Robb
Social climber
The other "Magic City on the Plains"
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Dec 17, 2010 - 02:48am PT
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Great source of econmist there AC- no bias on his part!
edit: I'm tired-off to bed. Try to get some sleep yourself,
take care, be safe.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Dec 17, 2010 - 06:21am PT
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Skipt said Dec 16, 2010 - 08:27pm PT
HDDJ,
You want money. Go and make it. Stop telling people you have better uses for theirs.
That is plunder talk. You sound like a tyrant.
Skip
Ahahahha. I just totally nailed you and so you start attacking me. Just like a wussy liberal. At least that's what YOU always say. Maybe you and bluering should take a couple of tax classes so you don't have to come on here arguing on pure ideology. Between "net worth taxes" and "we should tax people less so they have more money to pay the federal debt with" you are both good for a laugh at the very least.
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