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wildone
climber
Where you want to be
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May 16, 2008 - 03:38pm PT
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So that's it?
Have we reached some sort of resolution?
Or have we finally figured out that in incindiary issues such as this, opinions are never changed?
Did we all get sick of people just waiting till the other side stopped talking so they could say their piece, again, with slightly different verbage ad nauseum?
Do we agree to disagree?
Could we get a final quarter summary from the living legend Fish?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 16, 2008 - 04:03pm PT
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A bit upthread, FatTrad suggested we have a baseball game at the FaceLift. (Softball, I hope.) That sounds like a fine idea that we can all agree on. Or a game of soccer. Followed by a swim off El Cap bridge, and a BBQ.
I suggest, though, that the teams be chosen by lot.
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sawin
climber
So., CA.
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May 16, 2008 - 06:32pm PT
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Andrew can these R/X routes you mention be re-hearsed
and or accomplished by TR?
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Andrew Barnes
Ice climber
Albany, NY
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May 16, 2008 - 07:06pm PT
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Sawin,
For slab routes at Stone Mountain in NC: it is a 500 foot cliff,
so in theory, it is possible to rap down and top-rope rehearse
most pitches. It wouldn't necessarily be pleasant or straightforward, but it is possible. Just as it's possible to
hike to the top of El Cap and rap down/rehearse certain pitches.
Not necessarily straightforward, but possible.
At Stone Mountain in North Carolina, all but one or two of these routes were established ground up. Typically nowadays, people lead the routes from the
ground up, or they don't get on the route at all. Sometimes this
means taking long and unpleasant falls. I've had a friend who
took a 60 foot cheese grater and narrowly escaped hitting the
deck. I've seen another case where a duy decked from 30 feet,
before clipping the first bolt. He had a bouldering pad on the
ground, and this helped alleviate his fall.
I've had friends
protect 5.11 climbing by using duct-taped skyhooks. For the
most serious X-rated routes, there are probably fewer takers,
and the local climbers seem to like it that way. I've also seen
some people get really comfortable on friction slabs and start
free-soloing a lot there. We won't hear from these people (they
don't talk about their solos), but they do climb - just regular
folks who won't make it into the magazines.
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Dogtown Climber
Trad climber
The Idyllwild City dump
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May 17, 2008 - 01:43am PT
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Kid,
I'm starting to think that way.
Just having trouble letting go.
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sawin
climber
So., CA.
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May 20, 2008 - 10:08pm PT
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just regular folks who won't make it into the magazines.
Some of us refer'd to climbing competition as a rodeo circuit.
I had a world champion on my crew however he was not qualified
to do the work I did nor did he. I tried to always avoid the
news, however the times they caught my later crew they always
gave us a positive write up. I never competed in those climbing
circuits I just did the work.
Away from work those slab climbs are fun and that's were I
started easy to moderate 5'th class free soloing with no news
write ups and it's the self satisfaction and peace of mind that
I enjoy with rock climbing.
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denzuki
Trad climber
Plymouth, England
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May 21, 2008 - 05:41am PT
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'I wonder how many high profile, trad climber who made first ascents exist, who never placed a bolt.'? Walter Bonatti. Some of his trad routes since, have been over-bolted. Sad, very sad in deed.
Can't climb? Bolt!
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wildone
climber
Where you want to be
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Denzuki and medusa-You're both idiots.
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poop
Boulder climber
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remember everbody!!!!!
your all a bunch of climbing geeks!!!!!!
nobody really gives a sh#t.
if doug rap bolted, so what!!!!!!!!!, tuff sh#t, nobody gives a sh#t that your a climber with or without ethics. your a retarded ego monkey liveing in your world only
your geek friends think has a godlike history.
unless you can free ball it and climb naked with chalk ball tied to your dick
please
take more mushrooms,,,,and boulder naked with toilet paper hanging from your ass around camp 4.
i will join you
and then peton rap bolt midnightlightning ground up
cheers
poop
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Buggs
Trad climber
Eagle River, Alaska
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It's still alive! Yes!! I will bring my ball glove and maybe a soccer cleat for my wooden leg. Will we have enough players?
Is it bolters versus trads or what? Spurts vs dirtbags?
Either way or whatever, I'm in!!
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poop
Boulder climber
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and hay wildone.
your and idiot for saying the word idiot
its GEEK!
cheers
ill be bouldering at high tied down at mickeys beach this evening if you wanna rape later.
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poop
Boulder climber
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sorry Buggs
its GEEKS vs GEEKS
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denzuki
Trad climber
Plymouth, England
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Jun 25, 2008 - 02:50am PT
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The first time I visited Yosemite I was captured by its overwhelming atmosphere. Approaching the foot of El Cap I walked for ages along the foot of the monolith just brushing my hand along the mirror smooth (in places)granite. Awesome. But on looking up there they were - someone had deliberately damaged a million years of gentle polishing, by drilling and placing expansion bolts. Why?
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denzuki
Trad climber
Plymouth, England
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Jun 25, 2008 - 02:55am PT
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The first time I visited Yosemite I was captured by its overwhelming atmosphere. Approaching the foot of El Cap I walked for ages along the foot of the monolith just brushing my hand along the mirror smooth (in places)granite. Awesome. But on looking up there they were - someone had deliberately damaged a million years of gentle polishing, by drilling and placing expansion bolts. Why?
'Denzuki and medusa are Idiots.' Really! Wildone - an obvious expert in more than one field.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 25, 2008 - 04:20am PT
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It's near the end of June and nobody's noticed if there has been a second ascent (you know what I mean)
I'm wondering if anybody's gone up and sent the thing and just kept quiet about it so they didn't have to deal with the controversy around the route? or WTF?
Seems like a Potter or a Caldwell could just make a happy day out of the thing.
Peace
Karl
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couchmaster
climber
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Jun 25, 2008 - 10:59am PT
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Kurt nailed one of my thoughts when he said: first one to 3000 posts wins a new hilti!!!!
in reality i think most people are upset about the "style and location" more than the bolts.
Bolts are a part of climbing and will always be so. But style and respect for style and the respect for wild places is what is making the waves here....
Half Dome is not Smith Rocks, Red River Gorge or Las Vegas...
Half Dome is steeped in history and adventure, and rap bolting it takes that flavor away from a magical place.
I would rather see them do the route ground up, place a few more holes (can be patched later, and you would never know they were there) and climb it in the style that has dominated FA's for decades, than to open up Hd for sport bolting. Once Pandora's box is opened, you can't close it....
ks
However, if you then wind up with a piss poor route that a dude like Scott there, advocating for chopping this route, can't or won't climb ever again because of extreme fear, what is the point of that? The route gets 3 or 4 ascents and then falls into obscurity.
Pointless and selfish for those who would have liked to have followed.
Which is why different areas have different standards and issues and styles.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 25, 2008 - 11:51am PT
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Coz wrote
"Karl, your words are of a happy white man thinking the ends justify the means. Shultz and I will be at the reservation, crying in our hippie tea."
I beg to differ. Southern Belle has bolts too and has made few happy (except for a few who like the "Idea" that it exists. They'll never do it.)
Muir encouraged folks to come to the mountains and get their glad tidings. If some elite climber wants to come dance with death, they have your route to vision quest on, if some semi-elite climber wants to move over beautiful stone and feel happy in mountains, they can do growing up. Seems like a win win to me.
Quit your crying. It's just an idea to you. You'll never see those bolts nor climb either of these routes. Getting worked up over it is just another form of fundamentalism. Future climbers aren't being cheated out of their adventure since the history of second ascents in that area proves that future climbers are either scared or not interested.
It's becoming obvious that nothing has really changed. 95% of actual climbing in the valley consists of weekend warriors and serious climbers doing often repeated routes that get their blood running but only "might" kill them. The other 5% consists of the Elite thinking their routes matter when it's really more like celebrity dramas, everybody pays attention but it doesn't actually affect the rest of us.
Peace
Karl
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sawin
climber
So., CA.
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Jun 25, 2008 - 12:13pm PT
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Coz, Karl
this has been addressed previous within this thread.
Somehow does there need to be a vote or just sovereign
rule? With the later how is it to be enforced without
national forest, park etc. printouts/handouts?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Jun 25, 2008 - 01:09pm PT
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What a bunch of elitist bullshit that is.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 25, 2008 - 01:22pm PT
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I didn't bump this thread back to live but I fed it. Personally, I think it would be better to let it sink back into oblivion until somebody climbs it
Peace
Karl
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