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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 14, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
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Defend every Senate Republican voting against paying the healthcare for the 911 Responders.
Come on forum Republicans.
I stand behind the rightness of the Democrats to pay for this.
I want to hear your defense for your fellow Republicans no vote on this.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Dec 14, 2010 - 06:22pm PT
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FROM THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR TODAY:
By the Monitor's Editorial Board / December 14, 2010
The most targeted piece of President Obama’s health-care law is this mandate: Beginning in 2014, every American must purchase health insurance – under penalty of law. Except for the poor, elderly, and a few others, anyone who has not purchased insurance will face a hefty fine – 2.5 percent of one’s income.
Never before has the federal government tried to punish citizens for not engaging in a private activity. This “individual mandate” is a legal innovation, one now being challenged in several courts. On Monday, US District Judge Henry E. Hudson ruled that the mandate “exceeds the Commerce Clause powers vested in Congress under Article I [of the Constitution].” Two other federal judges, however, recently ruled in favor of the mandate’s constitutionality.
At least one of these cases will probably reach the Supreme Court by 2012. As in many of its decisions, the high court may be split in a 5-to-4 vote. And Justice Anthony Kennedy, as often happens, could be the swing vote and write the majority opinion.
Here is what he may well say – in a layman’s version of arguments – against the mandate:
This court is often asked to balance the right to individual liberty against Congress’s power to regulate national markets. The law under question, however, actually forces individuals to participate in a market – health-care insurance. If this mandate were to stand, it would erode the Bill of Rights’ Ninth Amendment, in which the listing of rights in the Constitution does not deny other rights “retained by the people.”
Congress justifies this law’s coercion of individuals into making a private purchase as necessary to pay for extending coverage to the uninsured. While the goal of health-care reform is noble, the means cannot come at a high cost to personal freedom and require an interpretation of the Commerce Clause that would lead to unlimited federal powers.
This court has never allowed the federal government to regulate economic inaction. The Constitution does grant broad – but not unlimited – powers to Congress to regulate interstate commerce. As I stated in past opinions, this power should rarely be restricted.
This mandate is one of these rare occurrences.
Regulation of any economic activity by definition requires individuals to act. My opinion in a 2005 case upholding federal regulation of marijuana grown at home and never sold suggests that individual, noncommercial activity can be regulated. However, even in this case, the individual was taking action.
If now government is allowed to force anyone to participate in a private, commercial activity, such power could then be used under any purpose, such as commanding the purchase of life insurance, a clean-burning car, or healthy types of food.
The government has argued that it should have similar powers as the states now have in requiring drivers to buy auto insurance. But that power only resides if an individual first acts to buy a car.
Government also argues that all individuals can be expected to use the medical system someday, thus burdening the government and those who have paid for health insurance.
This presumption of future action would set a dangerous precedent. Congress could then penalize an individual for the mere potential for action, allowing the state to use any means to push any individual into any action – thus violating the Constitution’s prescribed limits on government authority.
Using a mandate against inaction would turn the Constitution on its head and lead to a people of the government, not a government of the people.
The Constitution lives to protect rights no one can touch; it will no longer live if those fundamental rights can be mandated away.
Government cannot be allowed to compel private action merely in anticipation of someone needing a government service. It can, and has, taxed individuals in anticipation of their using services such as Social Security or Medicare. The Constitution grants Congress the power to tax in order to fund these social needs.
In fact, Congress could avoid the mandate and still fund expansion of government-run health care simply by resorting to a general tax.
This mandate would also violate many of this court’s previous decisions, such as Roe v. Wade, that guard an adult’s privacy over his or her health except for a compelling state interest.
The 14th Amendment prevents the state from depriving individual liberty without due process of law. Given the other ways to pay for health care or control its costs, there is no compelling interest in law for this mandate or for an unbridled exercise of police powers and economic regulation.
Congress can regulate action but not a mere personal decision without action. Under this court’s precedents and the Constitution, one’s thoughts and intentions remain inviolate.
The right to individual liberty, as retained by the people, does not allow this mandate to stand.
So ordered.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Dec 14, 2010 - 06:28pm PT
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Today's liberalism is not "liberal" at all. It is the opposite of liberalism -- it is about state expansion and control. Obama represents the culmination of progressive hopes and dreams -- a radical leftist, who hates this country, is now at the pinacle of national and world power. Only the problem is, Americans who actually have a brain are finally beginning to realize what a disaster this man, and his ideology, are.
Obamacare represents the perfect expression of today's progressive view -- the free market and free choice must be controlled and rationed by experts working for the state -- and, if you attempt to resist -- the government will take away your income as a penalty because you failed to get in line.
Revolution is coming folks. The natives are very very restless. This house-of-cards economy we have built upon the lives of our grandchildren is going to collapse, and those leaders who "cant let a good crisis go to waste" will find that the crisis will be at their proverbial front door very soon.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Dec 14, 2010 - 06:29pm PT
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Romney is a pariah to conservatives. Do a little research please.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 14, 2010 - 06:33pm PT
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Defend every Senate Republican voting against paying the healthcare for the 911 Responders.
Come on forum Republicans.
I stand behind the rightness of the Democrats to pay for this.
I want to hear your defense for your fellow Republicans no vote on this.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 14, 2010 - 06:57pm PT
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Defend every Senate Republican voting against paying the healthcare for the 911 Responders.
Come on forum Republicans.
I stand behind the rightness of the Democrats to pay for this.
I want to hear your defense for your fellow Republicans no vote on this.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Dec 14, 2010 - 06:59pm PT
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Watching the liberals in here defend Obama, in light of all that he has done!
1. Gitmo to remain open, and terrorists not given a new home in our neighborhoods in the name of "compassion"
2. No terror trial for KSM even tho Obama said we had to do it to show America-hating suicide bombers that we love them
3. Obama to keep taxes lower because -- and we have to love this -- "low taxes are good for the economy and families."
4. Obama signs a deal with Russia extending the dreaded missile defense shield, which liberals for decades have said would never work
5. Obama's progressive radicalism has done more to help and energize the conservative/TEA party base than anything before, which led to the biggest single "shellacking" a party has taken in one election for Congress in 70 years
6. Obama has re-upped the Patriot Act, despite howls from the left
Thank you o-dear Obama. PLease, keep it up!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 14, 2010 - 07:02pm PT
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Weak, pussy Republicans
KISSING an Arab
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 14, 2010 - 07:02pm PT
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Defend every Senate Republican voting against paying the healthcare for the 911 Responders.
Come on forum Republicans.
I stand behind the rightness of the Democrats to pay for this.
I want to hear your defense for your fellow Republicans no vote on this.
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 14, 2010 - 07:52pm PT
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This place really IS a ZOO...
If only it was a petting zoo...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 14, 2010 - 09:20pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 14, 2010 - 09:22pm PT
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Let's just keep on constantly putting up images that we know are really stupid.
Over and over.
Just to be as relentlessly partisan as possible.
Never engage with in depth fact based policy discussions.
Never.
Just keep on insulting each other.
Two can play this game:
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 14, 2010 - 10:40pm PT
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Will this ever stop?
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Dec 14, 2010 - 10:56pm PT
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Fatty
“What good is money is one cannot use it to oppress his fellow man”
Did your fellow buddy Dick give you that advice?
It’s official but sure would have been nice to see him in jail, plus he isn’t looking too good these days would not miss him when he goes. corruption, murders everything to make a buck or profit.
From The Guardian Nigeria Dec 14 2010 [half of article]
THE legal and diplomatic methods employed by the Nigerian Government in its on-going efforts to bring to book officials of Halliburton, including United States (U.S.) former Vice President, Richard “Dick” Cheney may have yielded some revenue for the country.
Following the filing of charges of criminal conspiracy against officials of Halliburton and Cheney, fervent calls were made to the Nigerian Negotiation Team and correspondences were initiated by some former top officials of the U.S. government and Halliburton culminating in a meeting last week in London.
At the said meeting concluded on Saturday, December 11 in London, between Halliburton officials and Federal Government’s negotiation team, the oil services firm resolved to pay to Nigeria the sum of N20 billion as criminal penalty. Halliburton also said it would get the U.S. government under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) to recover the outstanding $132 million, which is currently frozen in Switzerland and transfer same to Nigeria.
The said sum is the balance of the total bribe sum, which was frozen in Switzerland after the lid was blown off the bribe-for- contract deal, The Guardian learnt.
Investigations by The Guardian showed that these terms of settlement were reached after intense discussions in London between both parties, with former U.S. President George Bush (Snr.) and former U.S. Secretary of State, James Baker, joining the discussions via teleconference.
An impeccable source, who confirmed this development said: “Nigeria had fruitful discussions with Halliburton officials and some persons who occupied the highest office in the United States in the past phoned in to join in the discussions. I can confirm to you that by Friday night we had agreed on terms of settlement.”
The Nigerian negotiation team led by the Attorney-General of Federation and Justice Minister, Mohammed Bello Adoke (SAN) is composed of Secretary of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC), Emmanuel Akomaye, a private legal practitioner, Damian Dodo (SAN), Special Prosecutor Godwin Obla and the Executive Secretary of the National Human Rights Commission, Roland Ewubare, whose international clout and experience has been very useful in the negotiations.
On Halliburton’s negotiation team at the meeting was its Chief Executive and Chairman, David Lesar, who took over from Cheney; the President of the firm, Eastern Hemisphere, Ahmed Lofty; Deputy General Counsel, James Ferguson; Oghogho Akpata of Templars Law firm and other senior executives of Halliburton drawn from the United Kingdom, Dubai and Dallas.
While Halliburton was seeking to pay a more lenient criminal penalty, the Nigerian officials stood their ground, insisting that the U.S. government could not have reaped more financial benefits on a crime committed in the Nigerian shores while Nigeria is left to pick the crumbs, the source disclosed.
“Government will not settle for anything less than what these firms have paid to the U.S. government. In fact, it is government’s view that it is better to liquidate criminal corporation than settle for anything less than the criminal fines and disgorgement paid to the U.S”, he stated.
Last week, he had explained to The Guardian that under the U.S. model, erring companies or individuals are to pay criminal penalty or fine in multiple of the amount of the transaction, disgorge all profits made from that deal and institute a three-year scheme of corporate compliance.
Already, the U.S. government has received about $1.28 billion in form of criminal fines and disgorgement of profits thereof from various firms involved, with Siemens paying €30 million, Halliburton $579 million, Snamprogetti and Technip paying $240 million each as fine and disgorgement to the U.S. government even though the crimes were committed in Nigeria and against Nigeria, the source explained.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 14, 2010 - 11:01pm PT
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Oh, during Bush's eight years those on the left called his supporters Bushbots, dipwads, whatever.
Just depends on who is in office.
So now to continue the game people who voted for Obama over McCain are
called "droids", or Obama Droids, or whatever.
This is all meant to be so clever, somehow. On BOTH sides.
I think it is really stupid and just prevents us all from really talking to each other.
edit:
DON't YOU?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 15, 2010 - 12:59am PT
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Yeah laughing
Didn't think so, but thought you'd get a kick out of that ....
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 15, 2010 - 01:00am PT
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why do you guys even both with this waste of skin?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Dec 15, 2010 - 08:56am PT
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Rokjox said This thread is MUCH easier to read now that all that pseudo-intellectual political bullshit has gone and just the raw emotions and clear clean mutual dislike is all that is left.
Easily the most salient post of this week.
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