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shut up and pull
climber
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Here is Obama today, sounding like a damn Republican! Love it!
The single most important jobs program we can put in place is a growing economy. The single most important anti-poverty program we can put in place is making sure folks have jobs and the economy is growing.
We can do a whole bunch of other stuff, but if the economy is not growing, if the private sector is not hiring faster than it's currently hiring, then we are going to continue to have problems, no matter how many programs we put into place.
And that's why, when I look at what our options were, for us to have another three, four, five months of uncertainty, not only would that have a direct impact on the people who see their paychecks get smaller, not only would that have a direct impact on people who are unemployed and literally depend on unemployment insurance to pay the bills or keep their home or keep their car, but, in terms of macroeconomics, the overall health of the economy, that would have been a damaging thing.
Comment -- wait -- you mean that you have to get the private sector to hire people? Oh no. Doesnt that blow a big hole in your idea that it is the government that creates jobs, not the private sector?
Geeez -- give this guy remedial classes in basic economics and business.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Oh Gary -- take off that Che shirt, put down the bong, and step into the real world.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Hey SUAP, if a cop or fireman WAS making $250,000 a year, you'd be the first to be screaming bloody murder over it.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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SUAP, yep, the American capitalists are creating jobs by the thousands: in India, China, Vietnam, Indonesia...
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shut up and pull
climber
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From Powerline today, the best center-right blog out there:
As R.J. Pestritto has demonstrated, the intellectual roots of modern liberalism lie in an assault on the ideas of natural rights and limited government. They eventuate in an administrative state and rule by supposed experts. Obamacare represents something like the full flowering of modern liberalism.
The roots of modern liberalism are reflected in the scholarly work of Woodrow Wilson. Reading Wilson is an educational experience. It is shocking to read the expressions of his disaffection for the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States.
Wilson's expressions of disapproval are the precursor to Barack Obama's disdain for the Constitution and the Warren Court. Obama perfectly reflected Wilson's views in his 2001 comments on the civil rights movement and the Supreme Court. In the course of the famous radio interview Obama gave to WBEZ in Chicago, Obama observed that the Warren Court had not broken "free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties." To achieve "redistributive change," the limitations of the Constitution would have to be overcome by the Court or by Congress.
Franklin Roosevelt touted welfare state liberalism in the "second Bill of Rights" that he set forth to Congress in his 1944 State of the Union Address. "Necessitous men are not free men," Roosevelt asserted, and enumerated a new set of rights, among which were the right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation, the right of every family to a decent home, and the right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health.
Implicitly arguing that the teaching of the Declaration had become obsolete, Roosevelt asserted: "In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all regardless of station, race, or creed."
Abraham Lincoln's argument with Stephen Douglas also came down to a disagreement over the Declaration of Independence. Lincoln articulated this disagreement with special gusto in his critique of Douglas on July 10, 1858.
According to Douglas, the teaching of the Declaration had no general applicability beyond the immediate situation that confronted the Founding Fathers. Restating Douglas's argument, Lincoln asked "in all soberness, if all these things, if indulged in, if ratified, if confirmed and endorsed, if taught to our children, and repeated to them, do not tend to rub out the sentiment of liberty in the country, and to transform this Government into a government of some other form." This is certainly one of the questions that is raised in acute form by the doctrine of welfare state liberalism in general and by Obamacare in particular as one case in point.
The economic "rights" asserted by Roosevelt in his second Bill of Rights differ and conflict with the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They are claims on the liberty of others. If I have a right to medical care, you must have a corresponding duty to supply it. If I have a right to a decent home, you must have a duty to provide it.
The argument for the welfare state belongs in the same family as "the arguments that kings have made for enslaving the people in all ages of the world. You will find that all the arguments in favor of king-craft were of this class; they always bestrode the necks of the people, not that they wanted to do it, but because the people were better off for being ridden." That's Lincoln again.
Lincoln memorably derided the underlying principle as "the same old serpent that says you work and I eat, you toil and I will enjoy the fruits of it."
If Obamacare is constitutional, we have experienced the demise of limited government. If the government can, among other things, command citizens to purchase health insurance of a prescribed shape and size, you can bet it will be using this power in a variety of (other) unpleasing ways in the future. As the Tea Party folks recognize, it's time to take a stand.
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Nibs
Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
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SUP - take your own advice^^. Again, you wouldn't know a Lib if he bit you in the ass. Perhaps you could take a moment out from your spew-fest and listen to an Independent Senator (thank you Tom C.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5OtB298fHY
The repubs suck; dems not much better. gary's last posted 'toon nails it.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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SUAP, you're funny, dude. If you had a brain, maybe you'd realize what Lincoln was talking about.
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
Abraham Lincoln
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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" before the major implementation of the industrial revolution"
God , but you're an idiot Fattrad.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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khanom,
He's downclimbing, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I hope.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Locker....i see you found crack annie...rj
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Coz said
You're right Joe, my bad on the math.... 68k, now that's not a lot of money.
Big MNF, party last night.
Joe, 50K is dam near poverty, ask any school teacher it's barley enough to get by in a nice city.
I say raise taxes on people making 500K a year or better yet just a 10 percent flat tax.
TIMES TWO!! is $136,000 take home pay enough for your couple to "get by" on??? It is YOUR example!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Coz said 138K for two is not even in the low side of rich.....
Well, the average person in a "rich nation" makes $35,000 a year. The average person on the planet makes $7,000 a year. If you can afford to say "man you should spend 3 months in India like I just did" in a manner that assumes just anyone can go do that....then you're probably rich.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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My little brother is unemployed, lives in LA, has a wife and two kids.
He has an MBA and a 30 year career. He got "laid off"
And would KILL for a chance to make 35K a year.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Coz..the average household income in the US is somewhere near $45K...where are you getting your numbers.
In Taos County, New Mexico (where I live) the average household income is $27K.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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I agree with Coz: "35K is middle class are you kidding me, try to own a house and raise a family on that wage in LA."
I can't imagine how people do all that they do on what I make.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Bob, you are in Taos!
I am in Albuquerque.
Maybe some day.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Coz...I saw that link, upper middle class, lower middle class and middle class, pretty wide income difference between upper and lower.
The government link say the average household income in the US in 45-50K, well off from your 130 to 260k.
Average always meant "middle" to me, I could be wrong.
Hope all is well?
Norton...would love to hook up...heading down to the Bosque del Apache for a couple days of wildlife viewing and shooting (camera) this weekend.
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