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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 22, 2018 - 11:19am PT
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there is no simple technical fix...
geoengineering on that scale has never been done (intentionally, if you consider the increased CO2 a technology goal).
there are considerable, uncalculatable risks for doing something like this at global scales.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 22, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
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Still, it seems like a solution to the ultimate catastrophes that people are predicting.
I think this is a bit of magical thinking, a substance that we can economically disperse into the atmosphere, that counter acts the effect of increased CO2 in the atmosphere without any other adverse side affects and allows us to continue doing what we're doing.
Do we really need to emit as much CO2 as we do?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Dec 22, 2018 - 12:47pm PT
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Today's fill up
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Dec 22, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
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I suspect that there is not much government can do about this (though it can do somethings) and that the consequence of failing to address the ecological challenges that face us, and are caused by us, will force the issue.
Just because a drug addict must quit using drugs in order to live, doesn't mean he will quit using drugs.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Dec 22, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
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According to the claims, putting calcium carbonate into the atmosphere would be a very cheap way to reduce the planet's temperature. However, with less sunlight, less crops will grow and the temperature decrease wouldn't be worth it. Still, it seems like a solution to the ultimate catastrophes that people are predicting.
Blocking out sunlight might get the average temperature back to what it was, but it does nothing to stop climate change.
Increasing CO2 and blocking sunlight results in a warmer artic and a cooler tropics than pre industrial times. It might slow but wouldn't stop ice melt and the weather would still be dramatically changed.
I wish articles on the subject made this more clear.
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A Essex
climber
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Dec 23, 2018 - 05:24am PT
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Honnold drives an electric truck now!!!
we are all saved!!! global warmings have been reveresed!!!
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john hansen
climber
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Dec 24, 2018 - 08:42pm PT
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I am really starting to believe that the human race does not have the collective willpower to take the steps necessary to stop this runaway train.
Will we all stop driving and flying and not buying products made with power supplied by fossil fuels and crops sustained with fertilizers made from fossil fuels?
Solar and wind are almost viable but it would take a national and world wide commitment on a scale of WW2 to make that happen.. Would Americans put up with ration cards and other restriction's.
New technologies could come to be..
I had a thought that maybe if every AC and Heating unit, the fan in your car, and factory fans everywhere in the world , had a filter that could some how capture carbon as the air goes thru.
You could even build them as fences or any place the wind blows.
Like a honey comb , repetitive and cheap, a hundred miles long and 10 feet tall.
The trick would be to have the surface of these structures bond CO2 in a permanent way.
What would a chemist come up with to bond CO2 to a surface and create a solid ?
There was a good quote above..
"Just because a drug addict must quit using drugs in order to live, doesn't mean he will quit using drugs. "
Merry Christmas :)
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Dec 31, 2018 - 02:15pm PT
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I am really starting to believe that the human race does not have the collective willpower to take the steps necessary to stop this runaway train.
Yes, it seems that discussions of how to decrease GHGs are basically just theoretical. It took 35 years just to undo the lies of the fossil fuel industry and convince people that climate change is real. Now we face the harder step of actually doing something about it. Most people believe that someone else is the problem, and won't change their habits until AFTER everyone else. Many deniers rationalize their greed by blaming the other 'hypocrites.' The middle class blame the rich. Even the poor think their excess should be subsidized. The fossil fuel industry and their puppets the republicans blame Asia as their excuse for running away from attempting any global policies.
I'd say most are somewhere in step 4, so we are a looong way from completing step 10.
The stages of climate denial:
1. denies that climate change is happening.
2. denies that it is caused by GHGs.
3. denies that humans cause the GHGs.
4. denies that the negative impacts of climate change are significant.
5. denies that the negative impacts will increase and multiply.
6. denies that there are solutions.
7. denies that the solutions are worthwhile and cost effective compare to the impending impacts.
8. denies that solutions begin at home, especially when home is a place that led the world into fossil fuel overuse.
9. denies that they, their group, their society, and their country are part of the problem.
10. denies that world policy on limiting GHGs must be THE Top Priority, and that the world must take immediate and continual new steps to improve and enforce these policies.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Dec 31, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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I am really starting to believe that the human race does not have the collective willpower to take the steps necessary to stop this runaway train.
I had a little bit of hope in the early 2000s. There were some Republicans talking about climate change being a serious issue. And the world economy was humming and the middle class was confident.
But my hope plummeted after the financial crisis, the rise of populism, and republicans closing ranks on denial.
Economic insecurity makes it much harder to generate political will to make dramatic changes in the economy.
I would be shocked if the runaway train is stopped.
And it's the boiling frog syndrome. If a weather year like 2018 had happened in the late 90s, it might have shocked people into action. Now it's just like, doesn't this happen all the time?
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Dec 31, 2018 - 06:59pm PT
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This chart shows roughly the very wide spread in carbon pricing in different places. The carbon price can be due to carbon trading permits or due to direct tax.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-carbon-pricing/
It looks like France was already higher than most, which makes understandable some of them being reluctant to increase it further at this time.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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So who’s Nunavut’s biggest newsmaker of 2018?
This past year offers a predictable list of usual suspects. You could probably put together your own list of public office-holders and regional celebrities who, in 2018, managed to generate headlines and entertaining gossip.
But for this year, we’re not choosing a person. For 2018, our newsmaker of the year designation goes to an entire species: the polar bear.
To earn that, the humble polar bear didn’t have to do much of anything. All they had to do was what polar bears have always done: hunt, eat, mate and protect their young.
In doing so, they caused two heart-rending Nunavut tragedies: the death of an Arviat man in July, followed by the death of a Naujaat man in August. These events have aggravated a bitter regional controversy that’s unlikely to be resolved anytime soon, especially in the Kivalliq region.
The Kangiqliniq hunters and trappers organization in Rankin Inlet even told the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board late last year that the Western Hudson Bay subpopulation is too numerous. They suggested, essentially, that they be culled until the population is smaller.
And even the Government of Nunavut now leans heavily towards that position. In the arcane language of bureaucracy, they admit that “the polar bear may have exceeded the co-existence threshold of Nunavummiut.”
At the same time, this dispute has exposed the fatal error that international conservation groups have been making for nearly two decades: the exploitation of polar bear images to collect money from donors and endorsements from pop stars.
That strategy has backfired. Some, like the World Wildlife Fund, now admit this and are trying to communicate that the polar bear is only one part of a complex ecosystem.
But in Nunavut, the damage that environmentalists have inflicted on their cause will likely last for generations. Growing numbers of people in Nunavut not only believe polar bears are a threat to public safety. Growing numbers also believe that scientists and government wildlife managers are their enemy.
On that last point, the condescending attitudes of some researchers and government officials has been rather less than helpful.
For example, the federal Department of Environment and Climate Change said last fall, in a submission to the wildlife management board, that the
Inuit position is “inconsistent with the federal listing of the polar bear as a species of special concern in Canada.”
That tone-deaf response simply reinforces the Inuit belief that governments value the lives of polar bears more than they value the lives of human beings.
The most serious consequence of all this, perhaps, is that in Nunavut and other parts of the Arctic, there’s little support for the cause of reducing the greenhouse gas emissions that produce climate change.
For example, the Nunavut government has finally accepted the Trudeau government’s carbon tax—but in a spirit of grudging reluctance. And that’s only because GN officials have agreed to be bribed with the carbon tax cash that Ottawa plans to extract from Nunavut consumers.
The polar bear didn’t bring much in the way of good news last year. But it did bring real news, and continued to raise issues that we’ll be arguing about for years to come. For that reason, we name the polar bear as our top newsmaker of 2018.
https://nunatsiaq.com/stories/article/meet-our-newsmaker-of-the-year-the-polar-bear/
Pay no attention to those polar bears eating your neighbors. They're endangered. Threatened. They must be protected!!!
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Dick Cheney is famously quoted as saying that if there is even a “one percent” chance a risk could be related to terrorism (the famous “one percent doctrine”) you can invade another country and start a war (even if it turns out to be the WRONG country)
Thank you for your good memory, mine does not work so well for fine structure details, but it does remember the Big picture ---follow the $$$ is easy to remember.
Hollywood isn't known for for truth or facts; never the less, the movie Vice does have some historical facts thrown into it.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Some Americans hold fast to the belief that the government is not above the law. Unfortunately, the lawyers interpret the constitution to enable our dictators to do what ever they want to do. Party politics beneath their surfaces still do the bidding of Big Business. The hyperbole is a cultivated distraction to keep the general public's attention off of following the $$$. America will soon be under martial law to maintain civil order because its' citizens are going to be too busy scapegoating each other instead of following the $$$.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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In the arcane language of bureaucracy, they admit that “the polar bear may have exceeded the co-existence threshold of Nunavummiut.”
coexistence, the human population of Nunavut has doubled since 1991, while the region has the least dense population in the world, increasing the number of humans puts pressure on the bears.
There are about 16,000 polar bears in all of Canada, split between Nunavut and the Northwest Territories. In 1991 there were 22,000 people living in Nunavut, now 38,000.
Polar bear monitoring 2009
The increased population correlates with the increased seal population, so the question is a bit more complicated regarding the effect of climate change.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Climate change deniers are for the most part uneducated people with a right wing bent.
That demographic doesn’t read, and gets most of its news from social media. They are susceptible to fake news. I think it was Limbaugh who convinced them to not trust good newspapers and non partisan news outlets.
Trump, in a hundred years, will be regarded as the festering sore that finally broke out after a long disease. He is mental Herpes, a liar and crook.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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As for polar bears and drilling, it isn’t allowed close to dens. Hence polar bear hazing. They run off any bear with a helicopter. No sh#t.
I did a lot of study on north slope drilling.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Don't know about that Base.
It may not be complete denial but refusal to consider any climate mitigation seems universal among republicans. That includes a lot of middle class college education types.
The republican identity politics does not allow for any engagement on the issue.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Every two or three years it gets worse.
Boiling frog syndrome. There doesn't have to be a tipping point.
I think the best hope is to get people to think more about their grandkids and great grandkids.
Because even a moon shot program won't show results, and it won't pay for itself, in the remaining lifetimes of those making the decision.
Or get the Duck to convince everyone they are going to be reincarnated.
And as you can probably guess, I'll take the over on the temperature rise.
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