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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Wes..none taken...John by posting this tread wanted people to think about this issue, something that has been with me since my first encounters with Native Americans my freshman year in college in Santa Fe, NM.
Sending my love to JB family and close friends...I knew John and the climbing world lost a great one.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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L kinda nailed it. As much as I disagree with his political/ecconomic views, Bluering is a caring, sensitive person who really does want the best for everyone. His approach is so different from the paradigm in which my own exists, it's really hard sometimes, to resolve.
Thanks to John, the self proclaimed, "free market capitalist" who clearly had a heart, for bringing up this important conversation, R.I.P., bro it really is more than the shoes...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Yeah, well I talked to some people through e-mails on this issue of Native Americans and how I felt guilty for being a dick to John from his OP.
Truth is I DO have respect for Native Americans and their well-being and treatment. You'd have to be a prick to feel otherwise. Despte what some may feel, I'm not a prick in terms of feeling compassion.
I can be a prick though when it comes to overreacting to a post that I feel is disparaging a great country on it's Independance day.
Do I regret calling John a commie and un-American? You betcha. He did kinda take it pretty well too.
Did I think that maybe my comments he took too personally and caused him to be distracted on his solo? It did cross my mind briefly, but then this is Bachar we're talking about, some comments from a putz on a forum wouldn't distract THE SOLOIST.
Bottom line, be careful what you say to people and be respectful. You never know if that's the last time you'll chat with them.
I learned.
God bless ya, John. While I disagreed with your politics sometimes, I ALWAYS respected you. And always will.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Rest in peace, JB....you always had the balls to get people thinking about things that are real. I read alot of posts here;...but the best one for me was from L....who sends money to the Lakota in Pine Ridge....the reservation schools out there always have so many problems and they always need help and support...there is a School called Red Cloud ( I believe ) that is a private school run on funds (teachers get about 1/3 pay as rest of res schools).....and they really need the help too. I lived and worked out there in Oglala for 1 year, and 2 years with the Navajo.....lots of things to think about when it comes to Native Americans, their past , present , and future.........
As for bluering being anti-Native American;....I see him as just playing devil's advocate, asking some hard questions, and asking us to think about things that make some uncomfortable;....I always get sh#t from people who find my climbing on reservation lands disrespectful;.....but I respect myself for dedicating 3 years of my life to living and working with Native Americans and trying to make a difference in their lives. ...Thanks again to John for being a driving force in my life as a climber, musician, human, and explorer...John is not with us on earth anymore, but his influence on rock climbing changed climbing and the way climbers think forever.......thank you bluering for asking the hard questions and getting us to use or brains more than we sometimes care to.......
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Bluering-
"Bottom line, be careful what you say to people and be respectful. You never know if that's the last time you'll chat with them".
Thanks for reminding us of something we should all remember but too often forget. I know I will think more carefully about my replies on ST and elsewhere after this.
I never knew John but I think he would admire your ownership of this sentiment regardless of your differing views. Regret is a useless emotion. We all need to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and try to continue on in a better direction.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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There's over 300 million people in the US today.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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The last thing I said to Seth shaw in this world was, "your time will come." I was talking about glasses, but a serac squished him just a few months later.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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I'm just so sad about JB leaving us . . .
Although I didn't personally know John, I met him a few times in the Owens Gorge.
I really enjoyed being able to talk with him here on ST and often times regarding very contraversial topics. I know I push the boundaries, but here at ST, there are others who think for themselves also, and JB definately does. It makes me smile that we were in agreement about many controversial topics. We are both willing to look down the rabbit hole no matter what.
I miss John's presence, in the climbing world, and right here on ST. There are too many of us that leave too soon. I'm just really sad :_((
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Rankin
climber
North Carolina
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Bluering, don't sweat this thread my man. Everybody knows you run hot sometimes and post some crazy shiite. We all do. Whatever it takes to stir the pot, if you ask me. Anybody who has frequented the taco enough knows that you're a good guy. Peace.
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Ditto, Bluey.
When I read that John died, I felt pretty bad about the couple comments I made about beating him up.
I was just kidding of course and have nothing but respect for the man and he's known me long enough to know that I was kidding.
I still felt a little bad though.
I drank a couple Arrogant Bastards in his honor yesterday, as I will today.
John was an amazing man and I'm proud to have known him.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 15, 2009 - 07:46pm PT
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Kunlun_shan, I just got the book today.
Thanks!!
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 15, 2009 - 08:16pm PT
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Jose loved those organic hallucinogens!
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valandtyrus
Boulder climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 23, 2009 - 03:51am PT
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I just read every post here, and I can tell you all that you have nothing to worry about. Knowing John as well as I do, I could see him sitting at his desk and snickering while he read them... This was his last thread, and it was not a disappointing one. He LOVED engaging people in a debate, and you guys had a GREAT ONE. He enjoyed it so much that he made sure to post that poem before he headed out to climb that day.
Sooooo John and sooooooo fitting. You all had me on the edge of my seat wanting to read the next post. Laughing, inspired, amazed... A well needed break. I cannot begin to tell you how much it has meant to me.
Thank you so much!
Val :-)
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dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
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Jul 23, 2009 - 04:44am PT
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OK, I lied a couple of times, RIP Bro. Bruce.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jul 23, 2009 - 10:07am PT
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Hi Val, Yeah THIS was John, my last email to him was about this and how cool it was that this discussion be brought up. He unfortunately never got to read it. BIG Hug for you, see you real soon. Our prayer for you, Tyrus and John!
Peace
Ron
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
climber
from the Leastside
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2009 - 10:12am PT
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=535343&msg=535520#msg535520
I said it back in February '08.
What a sad loss. I miss John (great photo).
As for July fourth;
TGT lays out an absolutely marvelous and innovative document that dates to it.
As for indian oppression, as bad as it was (and it WAS), it was worse in South America.
It turned out how it turned out; water under the bridge at this point.
I have no "white guilt". My parents left europe in the '30s.
And much of the world that enjoys freedom today does so because of the greatness of this country and the sacrifice of its service men and women.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Too bad about the Native Americans. A valuable lesson in history.
When the mother ship returns from it's faster than light trek. (About 4 weeks ship time.) They are going to be real pissed to find their campground has been taken over. 8-o
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