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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 23, 2010 - 02:09pm PT
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Yeah, I've heard about it. See my previous comment to e.c.
As I said before, the Afghan National Army is a different story. They may eventually have to recruit cops from the ANA.
Another big problem is substance abuse, opium/heroin/hash amongst the cops. The country has a ways to go....The first step was getting a central gov't that didn't want to hold the country in the 14th century.
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ec
climber
ca
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Mar 23, 2010 - 03:13pm PT
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Reilly, the article was already in the thread just above...
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cowpoke
climber
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tried to peruse the thread to make sure this hadn't already been posted, but I apologize if it has:
on hbo2 last night, we watched a documentary (I think called "Afghan Star") about a reality show based in Kabul that is modeled on the show American Idol. We thought it was interesting and pretty well done with no explicit political message, one way or another.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 28, 2010 - 04:59am PT
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UN shuts Kandahar mission as security worsens
The fact that security can't be maintained in a city like Kandahar - let alone have it's defense be contested - tells you everything there is to know about the conflict and the futility involved with attempting to occupy and organize the country. Our unwillingness to field sufficient force levels coupled with a deep lack of any cultural awareness and skills on the part of our military makes this a pointless exercise with an inescapable end game. There unfortunately just is no graceful exit or end game which is what Clark, the military, and Obama have all been searching and holding out for.
"Nation building" isn't going to happen there and it's unfortunate the neocons decided to make it the pillar of their foreign policy. The consequences of the broad foreign policy mistakes associated with the neocon's 'domino theory' can't be avoided in either in Afghanistan or Iraq. The irony is what they were really trying to do was 'superpower rebuilding', yet achieved precisely the opposite result - they weakened us, expended our resources, exposed the limits of our will and might, and emboldened those nations who represent true strategic threats to our nation.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 28, 2010 - 10:55am PT
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healy,
I agree with all you said except for the "deep lack of any cultural awareness and skills on the part of our military". That is a bit of a broad brush stroke. Many officers and non-coms have a very good awareness but they are just too thinly spread and, as you said, their efforts are completely undermined by the horribly inept and corrupt Afghans.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Apr 28, 2010 - 11:20am PT
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All I know is that my nephew and godson Benjamin is due for deployment in Afghanistan with his Marine company this June and I am not comfortable with that. He is a good kid, like most of the troops are (though there are some pretty bad apples in the US and allied armed forces, as in every walk in life), and won't deserve to be killed or maimed, likewise with many of the innocent civilians in this quagmire that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld got us into - and let's not forget Rice and Rove.
Yes, this is a rant against those three creeps and criminals that ran the White House for eight forlorn years. If you have any problems with my rant, tough, this ain't a climbing thread.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 28, 2010 - 11:46am PT
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Cool photos...
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/big-guns.htm
EDIT: Healyje, the U.N. is bailing because ISAF is getting ready to cleanse Khandahar. Special Ops teams are already taking out commanders and softening the playing field.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 28, 2010 - 01:05pm PT
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...they are just too thinly spread...
Reilly, That is the issue. They are so thinly spread on the ground that it constitutes "a deep lack of any cultural awareness and skills on the part of our military". The same goes for our intelligence communitity - both exhibit an extreme deficit of pashto speakers. You really can't do nation building or even have a basic grip on what's going on if no one speaks the language.
Patrick, I do hope your nephew makes it there and back in good shape.
Blue, it says it all that the ISAF needs to "cleanse" the second largest city in Afghanistan this many years down the road, and a relatively modern city by Afghan standards, and one where we've owned the place since we invaded. If we can't secure Khandahar that means we are just hunkered down in Kabul, the Kandahar airbase, and our PRT bases and have no meaningful or lasting control outside of those. Guess what that means? That ain't 'winning', that's fighting to hold on to what little we have. It means it's an effort in futility and that sad reality isn't going to change.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 28, 2010 - 01:35pm PT
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It's not so much Kandahar City that will require work, but the river valleys and outlying towns of Kandahar Province. We are working with the locals to get them to steer clear of Talibunnies.
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/battle-for-kandahar.htm
Same thing we did in Iraq. Get the locals to cooperate with the mission and help rebuild the towns.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 28, 2010 - 03:38pm PT
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We've been fighting both wars with exactly this approach of periodic sweeps of places we've sweeped before because both conflicts are undermanned by a factor of 4-5x's what's needed to provide permanent security after a sweep. A yearly, quarterly, monthly sweep - it makes no difference after you drive away. Again, that we're sweeping Kandahar and its immediate environs is a very bad sign that we lack any real control and provide next to no security outside our bases. It's an iteratively pointless exercise - futile hurling at its finest - and a squandering of our military might.
It also simply illustrates that, no matter how efficient, military might is rarely ever more than a small component of an effective response to these kinds of problems.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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How's that 'surge' workin'? No, not the one in the Gulf.
Oh, I know, they're holding their Jerga-off and it's all gonna be good
once they invite the Talis back into the fold of corruption and incompetence.
Yes, I am highly cynical and tired of seeing good people die for no good reason.
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