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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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I guess nobody's willing to put money on either candidate??
Here's another good question for Jeff and Lois,
Knowing what you know now, would you still have voted for Bush in 2000 and/or 2004?
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jstan
climber
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Quick question.
Why are you posting like this if nothing can be done?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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"I know the last few posts have focused on the "torture" theme, but I haven't heard back from dirt on how he's certain that there will be a large war in the ME. I trust dirt's words. "
Um....aren't there already several of these?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Gee locker, I think there was a job for you in Germany back around... 1942 or so.
Fatty, YOU said I believe that, not me.
But I'll be happy to say what I think as soon as you answer the questions I asked that you NEVER answer.
I won't be holding my breath.
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drgonzo
Trad climber
east bay, CA
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GC thanks for the Hitchens link. Geez...
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Always used waterboarding once or twice at the beginning of the school year. I never had problems getting homework in after that.
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jstan
climber
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http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hNdN-Fi6d84iPJzhGP04Tsy7s-oA
Vote for Paris! Hilton 'enters' election race with spoof ad
49 minutes ago
LOS ANGELES (AFP) — Paris Hilton has thrown her hat into the US presidential race, declaring her desire to campaign against "that wrinkly white-haired guy" and threatening to paint the White House pink if elected.
The blond socialite responded to Republican candidate John McCain's controversial use of her image in a campaign television spot last week with a satirical ad of her own posted on the website Funnyordie.com on Tuesday.
In the ad, the 27-year-old appears reclining on a sun lounger beside a swimming pool, dressed only in a skimpy leopard-print bathing costume.
"Hey America, I'm Paris Hilton and I'm a celebrity too," Hilton declares breezily. "Only I'm not from the olden days and I'm not promising change like that other guy. I'm just hot.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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So, the election has come down to Paris Hilton.
Why am I not surprised.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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well, her energy plan is better than obama's
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Her energy plan is Obama's.
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jstan
climber
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In LA/JDF’s thread about videos he likes, Mr. Ed linked to a talk by Noam
Chomsky. Chomsky says the US is an oligarchy just as James Madison
visualized. The state is controlled by selfish economic interests and
most people don’t vote, discuss irrelevancies like whether the candidate
is personable or would be good to have a beer with, and are resigned to
other interests controlling their fate and their lives. So deeply cynical
that when an election is "stolen" in Florida there is no reaction. So
cynical it is believed since everyone is a crook there is no point in doing
anything.
I see a lot of this behavior around me, though I am not sure I believe
Chomsky’s description is correct. I have been places where this
description was clearly wrong. A million people went down to the
reflecting pool in DC one summer Sunday in 1970 and Johnson’s
presidency ended. Another such gathering was needed to end that
pointless war but at least there was the one. It was in 1970 also that
climbers in the East came together and decided we would have no more
destruction of our rock.
Lives trend to be long and there are many moments to remember. We
treasure moments like that at the reflecting pool because our spirit was
ascendant. We push away from us all the moments when it was simply
easier to act as though we believed we were helpless, impoverished, and
without significance.
We each must construct the moments that are our lives.
Each must choose whether their life is rich or barren,
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jstan
climber
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Locker, you are doing quite well all on your own.
It will go this way till you realize you are conflicted.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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"Yes, still GWB, Kerry and Gore are way out there. Bush screwed up many things, but who knows what screwy Gore/Kerry would have done after 9/11, taxes,etc."
That's nice Fatty. I like how you imply that Kerry and Gore are SO CRAZY that they might have gone TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL and done the worst thing imaginable after 9/11.....raise taxes. That would have been SO much worse than say turning the country into some fear crazed phone tapping torture loving bully that arrested people and held them without charge and eschewed diplomacy as "appeasement by the weak" while our allies fled our side and our economy crumbled.
Oh now I see...raising taxes actually affects YOU and therefore is more important. A true patriot. I salute you sir.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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OK sorry there Fatty I thought that was your implication. Still, the idea that our post-9/11 reaction could have been worse is pretty rediculous. I realize you guys work hard to maintain the "lol Democrats will get us killed in a time of crisis" facade but come on.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Fatty, you are just off your rocker.
I've asked you numerous questions, you NEVER answer them, now if you mean what you say, go find a few and answer them, or forget about me ever taking you seriously again.
I'm pretty sure you won't do this, cause you always dodge the hard questions, or blow em off, or ignore em.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jeff, I'd have to guess that you are a bit delusional if you think that either Gore or Kerry would have gotten the US into the mess it is in right now, or even worse off than Bush has done of the job.
But then again, if the POTUS is really only a figurehead for bigger players behind the scenes - such as the big corporates, AIPAC, and others - then perhaps it doesn't matter who is POTUS, that events would have happened more or less the same these past eight years.
Jstan brought up a good point about Chomsky referring to Madison's visualization of the US as an oligarchy.
It would appear that the US is an oligarchy. If so, could Obama change that? Probably not. But McCain sure as hell can't.
It really is the populace who can change that and bring back power to the people, for the people and by the people. Perhaps Obama is a good starting point for that. Who knows, but it sure isn't Paris Hilton.
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jstan
climber
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I want you folks to know "I'm like, just totally ready to lead." - Paris Hilton
Another report I read this morning has McCain now referring only to Speares. I think Jack(?) Hilton must be having the time of his life. Because of tax law he has probably already passed an appreciable portion of Paris's inheritance to her and she is more than able to launch her own attack campaign. When challenged by his republican friends he can smile and say, "Tell me again how you get your kids to do as you want." I ask you, how often do you find yourself in such a sweet position?
We have learned a lot out of this:
1. McCain has no forethought. Any idiot could have foreseen this. We may look forward to yet more invasions with no prepared exit strategy.
2. When in a bind he does silly things. I am "enjoying" slandering people for my own gain.
3. He is an envious person. That image of Obama addressing 200,000 people drove him up the wall. When he was over there he gave a news conference in a small courtyard. This is why that attack ad was necessary.
The way support formed behind McCain at the last conceivable moment suggests many of the people behind him are holding their noses. If that is true perhaps we have the chance at this time finally to begin killing the politics of division begun by Nixon. For this we all will be in John McCain's debt. The pain of what he must be going through is serving a good purpose. And he is in a lot of pain.
Dammit all Patrick, I’m going to call you Paddy. Paddy has hit it on the nose and Riley’s eyes must be widened in amazement. Obama is very ambitious and is going for the brass ring. He intends to show Noam Chomsky he is wrong. He figures if he can get $5 from each of us and he does actually make it to 1600 PA Ave, he can sit us all down and say, "You each have $5 invested in our chance of success. Shall we get down to brass tacks now and figure out how to get us out of this mess? Eh?"
Riley I have never met Noam but I watched him on the video. My guess is the person who will be most pleased of all to see Noam Chomsky proven wrong, will be Noam Chomsky. In the video he was begging us to prove him wrong.
Obama’s election is by no means assured. Not at all. I will say this. If he does not win I will be left no choice but to laugh. We will have entered the theatre of the absurd.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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How can anything be more absurd than 8 years of Shrub?
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jstan
climber
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Locker it is alright to be conflicted.
As long as you get your ass down to the polls.
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jstan
climber
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Lois:
I don't actually expect McCain to be the same as Bush. I expect him to be much much worse. The lateness with which support came to McCain suggests I am not alone in this belief.
From what little I know I see Bush was a rebellious kid who pretty clearly saw he was not up to the mark in his family, so he thumbed his nose at his family for forty years until he heard this voice one night. Jeb said staight out that George had been a problem as a kid. But his Dad's money and Saudi money together pretty much shielded him from reality. So he is swimming in never never land even today.
Now McCain also had a prominent family but one not as wealthy. He crashed a bunch of planes and rebelled at Annapolis, I got that. But he did see a little reality in Hanoi so he, unlike George, knows he can be had. Most people come with volume controls reading from one to ten. McCain's control goes up to eleven or twelve and we can understand the Bomb Bomb Iran story and his famous temper. Unlike George he is nervous.
Do we really want a nervous finger on that briefcase with the red button?
More than our IRA's are at stake here.
Much more.
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