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WBraun
climber
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Jan 14, 2008 - 11:55pm PT
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You already forgot all about "Lucille"
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jan 14, 2008 - 11:55pm PT
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hey there jaybro... as to who is ahead in this specific post/thread--the numbers most likely will continually shift on each tally, even as the tides reshape the sand, so to speak...
BUT---as to WHO got the best chuckle, i reckon that would be YOU:
as to your quote:
"A legitimate god would, Have to Know about science, couldn't be god otherwise, it's one of the rules..."
a nice bit of humor, jaybro, sparks a heart to enjoy a smile and be merry! oh, my, ... :)
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 15, 2008 - 12:18am PT
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Neebee, too funny, that is exactly what I meant! so to speak...
Werner, we all get too few Lucille™ High Fives! I'm savoring mine!
Leb, now my own conservative sister™ is going atheist on me, what's a boy to do?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 12:26am PT
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1. Why should we "love" God? Just for you Lois.
The small child due to his curiosity asked his father if he can stick his finger in the moving fan. The small child remained persistent even after his father told him that he would lose his finger.
Obviously the father knew his sons proposal was insane but still wanted to respect his sons curiosity and his independent free will to choose.
Thus he pulled the plug and as the fan motor wound down to a non dangerous level told his son to go stick his finger in the fan.
WHAM! OUCH #@%^##@
He he he
Anyone for number two?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jan 15, 2008 - 12:29am PT
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hey there jaybro and werner, WOW... sounds like a story, you all.... say, dont rightly know what your "lucille" is... most likely a "great save" it sounds like...
(most folks call a "high five" , "the grace of god"... perhaps that is what you all are talking about...?)
like, for example: something that could have gone wrong, but did not---if so, sure glad to hear you both made it through in one piece...
lol--and then, if not, if "lucille" was just an a song on the radio, that you both fondly remember--------oooopssssss... i was playing in the wronggggggg ball game just now... :)
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 15, 2008 - 12:36am PT
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You, called it right, Neebee, except instead of something that could have gone wrong, it was something that went right. Just a climb, but had some resonance in my own life. a footnote of a footnote.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jan 15, 2008 - 12:42am PT
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hey there jaybro... wow...say, nice to know... thanks so much for the share... :)
footnotes = precious memories... :)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jan 15, 2008 - 01:08am PT
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hey there leb... not sure if this will say much as to your questions, but some folks see it like this:
#2---the worship aspect, as like the example of father and son love, how the son worships the father--as in happy admiration and just thrilled to be with his dad, type stuff... no good dad would demand it from a child, but a good dad sure would love it when his sons feels so wonderful toward him....and this would put you into the grazing-range of:
#1---to do that, or see that, then you'd have to see god as the "father to all things, etc... and then see yourself in the "child" aspect of it, then god wouldnt be the "etherial whatever"... so it makes a relationship out of the whole thing...
now...
some folks, do relate to nature and mother earth, so perhaps it is easier for them to see a concept of thankful worship---not sure... but you could ask them...
naturally, too, as we see here, some folks being more scientific, may not feel a thankful worship to science, but they must enjoy it in some way... it depends on the person...
oh, well... just wanted to through out why this is easier for some folks than others... hope it helped a bit in some way...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:22am PT
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hey there leb... say, nice to see you, thanks for the share-back...
say, perhaps we need wbraun/werner's second story, or story #2, i think it was, huh....
say, werner... after this quote:
"he he he" ...
we must see your other version to being helpful for lois/leb.... as you have set the path so nice and careful with such a most humble "he, he, he"....
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Mustang
climber
From the wild, not the ranch
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:32am PT
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God vs. Science?
C'mon, that's way too easy, God always wins cause it has the so-called, 'unknown factor'. How the heck can you game plan for that?
Immensely provocative and engaging opinions, many thoughtful and insightful posts everyone. Definately a discussion that will perhaps, never find a 'logical' conclusion.
Seems like some answers only raise more questions. Good stuff, worthy of a bump.
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slayton
Trad climber
Morongo Valley, Ca
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Jan 15, 2008 - 05:14am PT
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God vs. Science!!!! Place your bets now because the afterlife will be too late.
There has been much good discussion here about the nature of religion, spirituality, about how we can or cannot prove the existence of a deity, and still I ask "why does it matter to you?"
Why is it so important to sway another's opinion/belief/faith to one more becoming to your own?
Are those who "believe" trying to save souls and those who don't believe trying to save "minds"?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:41am PT
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Good points LEB, thought the same thing since my teens.
Are those who "believe" trying to save souls and those who don't believe trying to save "minds"? Never thought about it that way exactly Slayton, but maybe so. I, for one, feel this incredulity that very smart people can believe in these things that to me are obviously fairy tales. And it DOES matter with respect to, say, public policy. I don't want magical thinking to be in the mix and have equal footing with rational thinking. I would never vote for a candidate who believed the earth was 6000 years old. That would be like voting for someone who believed the earth was flat and that we were the center of the universe.
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Jan 15, 2008 - 10:28am PT
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God vs. Science. I do not think, as some have suggested, that both science and religion are looking at the same things form different angles.
Science attempts to discover the underlying principles that govern the observable universe. The theories that have thus far been conceived using scientific methods have been fairly useful in undersanding what's going on around us and helps us make predictions about what to expect. All the creature comforts we enjoy today are due to science (modern medicine, accurate weather forecasts, cold beer on demand, decent climbing ropes etc.) Science has also given us atomic weapons, but I will leave it to you to judge whether mankind is better off today.
God (if it exists at all) appears to be of the Deist variety. Having created the universe, he has all but disappeared. In a world that is full of suffering and death, where nature seems to care little for the fortunes of human kind, god seems to care little as well. In order to cope with this unending onslaught of misery, religion offers solace to the faithful. Surely we deserve a heaven after all this hell. But in no way is it obvious that any of it (heaven, hell, reincarnatin etc.)is true.
I do not see where science and god (religion) meet at all. Science is helping us in the here now while god seems to be more concerned with what? Our souls? An afterlife? Using up our Sunday mornings?
The arguements in this thread seem to drift into whether god actually exists or not. But in keeping with the original question of God vs science, I pose this question. If you were having a heart attack and you could have only one of the following, what would you choose, prayer or a good paramedic?
bc
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Wolfman
Boulder climber
Fort Worth
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Jan 21, 2008 - 03:24pm PT
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Bruce,
I always thought the basketball theory was in reference to trying to get a BJ after you're married. It's like trying to hold a basketball underwater....
Joe
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 21, 2008 - 05:21pm PT
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"Science has proved that God does not exist. End of story"
Then you have just declared that you are God, since you have just declared that ultimatum.
That is illusion and egotism .....
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
concord, california
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Jan 21, 2008 - 07:26pm PT
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IMHO, God is a creation of man...not the other way around.
Science is a body of knowledge that is based on sensual observations of the physical universe. This body of knowledge can be tested, verified, & revised with repeatable experiments. This is where Science and Religion differ. Science is self-correcting. Religion is rigid and absolute.
God, according to Judeo-Christian or Islamic tradition, is a non-physical entity that created the universe. Because God is not physical, God is not subject to direct observation or analysis by even the most advanced scientific instruments. If God exists, she resides outside the realm of science.
For those who claim God is almighty, all knowing, and all powerful, I pose this question...
Can God create a route that she cannot climb?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 21, 2008 - 07:49pm PT
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"Can God create a route that she cannot climb?"
First: God is not a "she" but male.
Next: would be this response - In a high pitch tone of voice with lot's of confused emotion; "Oh how do you know? Where's the proof"
Hahahaha
A man came to the master and asked is there God? The master replied, "yes indeed".
The man said give me proof.
The master said you will clean my toilet, wash the floors, cook my meals and serve me for the next 20 years and I will then show you and prove that God exists and is real.
The man thought about it and looked at the master and concluded in his puffed up mind that the master was just a con man and demanded no more fuking around and tell me now.
The master then told the man it will take him 100 years before he will reveal the truth.
The man demanded again, and the master slammed the door in his face.
P.S. God doesn't need to "create a route that he can not climb".
Because he is self sufficient and complete.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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Jan 21, 2008 - 07:59pm PT
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God is a concept by which we measure our free time.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 21, 2008 - 08:09pm PT
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If it was "free time" then there would be no limit, death.
Yes, the time factor is the representation of the God.
But everyone is under the control of time factor.
Therefore God is Supreme.
Oh how you hate hearing that, hahahahaha
Hey, you can say and think anything you want.
But! will it stand the test of time?
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
concord, california
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Jan 21, 2008 - 08:29pm PT
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Werner: OK I accept that your God is a man who is supreme, self-sufficient & complete. He transcends space/time and he doesn't need to do anything.
But I still want to know: Can your God create a route that He cannot climb?
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