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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Apr 22, 2019 - 08:46am PT
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rock climbing on public lands is inherently political. to exclude political discussion is to shirk the responsible support of open discourse incumbent upon relatively powerful folks like Cmac, IMO.
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A Essex
climber
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Apr 22, 2019 - 08:48am PT
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/rant
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Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 08:57am PT
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Chris,
Thank you for providing such a wonderful CLIMBING forum. Political rants devolve into hateful diatribes which do no one any good. Although this can happen around any campfire, as climbers and such are pretty opinionated people, the internet style ranting and raving is tearing our country apart. People say things in posts that they would never say in person. It seems that the anonymity of the internet has allowed our darkest sides a place to express themselves.
I can respect people for their climbing accomplishments even if I disagree with their political views. But that becomes hard to do if they punch you in the face (electronically) and call you vile names because you disagree.
If you wish, starting a separate section of the forum devoted to political issues and other non-outdoors or climbing matters then by all means do so. It would allow frustrated people a place to vent their spleen without the rest of us getting dragged into them.
I am a member of the Practicalmachinist.com forum. This is a site which has a massive forum devoted to professional machining and manufacturing issues. They have some strict guidelines, which the moderators enforce, which keeps discussion civil. Going this route may not appeal to you, but check out the way they separate discussion into subforums. This really works on that site. Spending 10 minutes or so exploring the site might suggest some ways to allow off-topic (i.e. climbing/outdoor) issues to still be discussed without impacting those who do not wish to deal with them.
In any case, I do think that anyone reading this post might wish to consider the enormous resource that this forum has been to the climbing community, and the fact that you provide it for free. It is not a RIGHT, but a PRIVILEGE and a GIFT that we can post here and stay in touch with those we have climbed with in the (distant) past.
So Thanks, Chris,
Michael Jefferson
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Apr 22, 2019 - 09:13am PT
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What Scott said.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 09:34am PT
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Perhaps it is merely CMac’s desire to enhance public health by obviating further flogging of that poor dead horse?
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capseeboy
Social climber
wandering star
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Apr 22, 2019 - 09:37am PT
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Anonymity is nothing new.
Wiki: Gulliver's Travels was a transparently anti-Whig satire, it is likely that Swift had the manuscript copied so that his handwriting could not be used as evidence if a prosecution should arise, as had happened in the case of some of his Irish pamphlets (the Drapier's Letters).
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 22, 2019 - 09:39am PT
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rock climbing on public lands is inherently political. to exclude political discussion is to shirk the responsible support of open discourse incumbent upon relatively powerful folks like Cmac, IMO.
Amen!
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 22, 2019 - 11:24am PT
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Seems like a lot of posters have left (or been banned) this month.
Who is gone?
Dingus
Toker Villain
Who's pulled their TR?
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Trump
climber
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Apr 22, 2019 - 11:32am PT
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Posting isn’t actually doing anything, yet here I am posting about how posting isn’t actually doing anything. Posters gonna post I guess.
Prolly should expect that on a posting website. What exactly is allowed for posters to post about? This is, as they say, your party. Thanks for the invitation.
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RJ Spurrier
SuperTopo staff member
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Apr 22, 2019 - 02:56pm PT
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thebravecowboy and jaybro:
rock climbing on public lands is inherently political. to exclude political discussion is to shirk the responsible support of open discourse incumbent upon relatively powerful folks like Cmac, IMO.
Chris agrees with you.
What he said was this:
Climbing topics that are also political in nature, such as access issues, climate change, or discussion of policies related to or impacting climbing destinations are welcome here.
Please refer to Chris's post on that topic here.
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johntp
Trad climber
Punter, Little Rock
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Apr 22, 2019 - 04:54pm PT
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I don't care one way or the other. Once a thread goes political, just don't open it anymore.
But is stupid when an on topic thread gets diverted into a political web fight and deteriorates into a small group trash talking each other's perspective and not staying on topic with regard to the OP.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 22, 2019 - 05:06pm PT
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The complexity of it all....
I think rant is like rave.
We could discuss in a measured manner like dancing in the 60's/70's.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Apr 22, 2019 - 05:10pm PT
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I am guilty of enjoying and posting in the political threads. At the same time, I am OK with them being banned or relegated to a separate sub-forum.
They have started to crowd out the climbing posts, although that must of the reduction in climbing post activity is due to people moving on to Facebook and other social media sites. The climbing "party" is moving on... I don't think banning political posts will reverse this decline, but it may marginally reduce the rate of decline. So it may be a useful exercise.
I see the other changes in policy driving climbers away-namely the new policies that resulted in the decimation of the historical threads. These new policies are doing more damage to the "living heart" of the SuperTopo forum as climbing community than the political threads ever did, in my opinion.
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Apr 22, 2019 - 07:01pm PT
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Much of the gutter sniping would go away with one change. Everyone should have the courage to post as the person they actually are. No tags. Post under your actual name. anonymous posting is for cowards. When people have to take ownership of what they say they might show some restraint.
For you posters out there; writing is supposed to mean that you took time to consider your words. Don't write as you would speak off the top of your head. Take the gift that writing offers you: the chance to step back and consider your choice of words. Restraint is the idea. Edit yourself so others don't have to.
Obvious edits; Vulgarities, personal attacks, untruths, stereotyping or any immature potty mouth delivery. In other words: grow up.
Supertopo is worth keeping free and open to all subjects. Wild cat climbers just need to reel it in a little when it comes to writing things down for public discourse.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Apr 22, 2019 - 09:13pm PT
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Personally the overly vitriolic political threads have driven me away from the taco over the years. I don’t mind respectful lively discussions from people with diverse views, but that rarely occurs from either side on the political rants.
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immanti
climber
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Apr 22, 2019 - 10:04pm PT
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IMO... Yes.
And ok... I might be guilty of having participated in one or more discussions of the political kind here at some point or another...
But no one is forced to read, so far as I know... Live and let live.
The subjectivity implied, as well as the policing and purging it would take to enforce such a rule would be enough to drive off many posters.
That's just my opinion though, and someone else's decision.
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brotherbbock
climber
So-Cal
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Apr 23, 2019 - 01:35pm PT
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Yes.
You don't have to click stuff you don't want to read.
It's good to have campfire talks about all subjects.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 23, 2019 - 02:04pm PT
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Yes.
But I'd prefer that it not take the form of 'ranting' so much as thoughtful discussion. I do think that's possible, even in this day and age.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 23, 2019 - 02:07pm PT
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You’re right...it’s a forum for climbers not a climbing forum. There is also a forum that I visit for owners of T@B travel trailers (we just bought one). Guess what...they talk about their trailers, nary a peep about politics. I listen to what they say since, being owners of the trailers, they have developed some expertise regarding them.
That is the same reason I tune into ST. The forum is for climbers and being climbers they have developed some expertise concerning climbing. When these same people talk about politics they are just spouting poorly formed, prejudiced opinions that have no value to anyone save themselves.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 23, 2019 - 02:21pm PT
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A couple of construction forums I lurk on both have regular political threads going all the time, and the same dynamics as you see here: a few really persistent posters and a lot of activity in those threads. The main difference: the threads are sectioned off in an 'off topic' area.
Re: 'poorly formed, prejudiced opinions':
Isn't that the very nature of human beings who discuss anything? Doesn't matter if it's politics, retrobolting or Religion vs. Science, everyone brings their own view of the issue to the discussion, no matter how 'well formed'. When the discussion is done properly, hopefully all leave it a little 'better formed'.
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