Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 09:41am PT
|
Poll: Kavanaugh confirmation energizes Democrats more than GOP
A total of 46 percent say the Senate ‘made the wrong decision.’
By STEVEN SHEPARD 10/10/2018 05:25 AM EDT
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/10/poll-kavanaugh-midterms-885940
Republicans are touting the confirmation of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh as rocket fuel for the GOP grass roots in next month’s midterm elections, but it’s Democrats who appear more energized by the nomination fight, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll.
Kavanaugh’s confirmation is not popular: In the poll, which was conducted entirely after last week’s Senate vote, 46 percent of voters said the Senate "made the wrong decision" in approving the controversial judge, while 40 percent said it was right to elevate him to the high court.
And following the GOP-led effort to push through his nomination, enthusiasm among Democratic voters has surged. More than 3 in 4 Democrats (77 percent) say they are “very motivated” to turn out and vote in the midterms — more than the 68 percent of Republicans who say they’re “very motivated.”
|
|
perswig
climber
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 11:35am PT
|
Fat Dad ,thanks ,I am going to Cornell ,part time ,co operative extension.
Lol.
Yes,when I am 62 , I will be a Environmental Engineer.
Wilbeer, too cool. As if you're not accomplished enough, what with bikes and frame-to-finish.
Finest kind!
Dale
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
|
A worthwhile read...and noteworthy that the Trump criticism comes from a regular contributor to the National Review.
If You Think Our Politics Can’t Get Uglier Than the Kavanaugh Fight, Think Again
By JONAH GOLDBERG
October 10, 2018 6:30 AM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/10/if-you-think-our-politics-cant-get-uglier-than-the-kavanaugh-fight-think-again/
They can, and they will.
Confirming Brett Kavanaugh was the best outcome at the end of a hellish decision tree that left the country with no ideal option.
Reasonable people may differ on that. But what seems more obvious: It’s all going to get worse. Because everyone is taking the wrong lessons from the Kavanaugh debacle.
Let’s start with the president. In an interview Saturday night on Fox News Channel’s Justice with Judge Jeanine, President Trump said that he was the one who “evened the playing field” for Kavanaugh when he mocked Christine Blasey Ford at a Mississippi rally the previous week.
“Well, there were a lot of things happening that weren’t correct, they weren’t true, and there were a lot of things that were left unsaid,” Trump told host Jeanine Pirro. “It was very unfair to the judge. . . . So I evened the playing field. Once I did that, it started to sail through.”
This is mostly nonsense. Once Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona had forced the FBI’s reinvestigation of Ford’s sexual-assault allegation, Kavanaugh’s confirmation hinged on the FBI findings and the votes of three Republican senators: Flake, Susan Collins of Maine, and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.
The president’s comments mocking Ford, meanwhile, were singularly unhelpful. Collins called them “Just plain wrong.” Flake: “It was appalling.” Murkowski: “Wholly inappropriate.” Even Senator Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) said he thought the president should “knock it off.”
Nor did Kavanaugh’s nomination “sail through” after that. Instead, the headwinds got stronger, the water choppier, and the sharks hungrier.
As Trump chummed the water, his nominee was rescued by a team of RINOs. It was Flake’s FBI gambit, Collins’s sense of decency and decorum, and the steely determination of Majority Leader Mitch McConnell that got Kavanaugh confirmed. (Remember when Steve Bannon was declaring McConnell Public Enemy No. 1 of MAGA Nation?)
Trump cheerleaders could use a reminder of why Kavanaugh was the nominee in the first place. Trump’s Supreme Court list — brimming with GOP legal-establishment types, of whom Kavanaugh is the crown prince — was imposed upon him by skeptics who feared he might nominate someone like . . . Judge Jeanine Pirro.
But so much is forgotten, left behind in the locker room as Trump and team celebrate on the field. The president, who deserves conservative praise for picking Kavanaugh off the Federalist Society’s menu and for sticking by him, is claiming and getting undue credit for the win. The fact is, the president — himself repeatedly and credibly accused of sexual misconduct — was largely a hindrance in the fight. And he’s now doing further disservice to the new justice and to the Supreme Court by holding up Kavanaugh like a partisan trophy, as he did Monday at a White House swearing-in ceremony that verged on becoming a pep rally.
Such gloating and total war is the new statesmanship. Ryan Williams, the president of the Claremont Institute, argues that the Kavanaugh battle retroactively vindicates Michael Anton’s famous “Flight 93” argument of 2016: that the presidential election was a “charge the cockpit or you die” moment for American conservatives. Now, Williams says, the middle has collapsed, the parties are pulling farther apart, and it’s Flight 93 for as far as the eye can see.
The Left largely sees the situation this way, too. In the wake of their failure to destroy Kavanaugh, Democrats and liberal activists insist they must “fight dirty,” as political scientist David Farris argues in his book, It’s Time to Fight Dirty. Liberals have convinced themselves that Democrats lose because they are too nice. This, not ironically, was exactly the view conservatives such as Anton held about the GOP in 2016; many voters rallied to Trump on the grounds that “at least he fights.”
Stormy Daniels’s grandstanding lawyer, Michael Avenatti, is auditioning to be the Left’s counter-puncher. In response to the GOP’s Kavanaugh win, he tweeted, “When they go low, we hit harder. There is far too much at stake for any other approach.” Never mind that it was Avenatti’s harder-hitting allegations that steeled the GOP’s resolve to keep Democrats from railroading Kavanaugh.
There are other echoes of 2016 on the Democratic side. Many now flock to the banner of “socialism” the way the Bannonites rallied for nationalism. And both sides are doubling down on identity politics — Trumpists rushing to the defense of men, and leftists calling out white women who don’t toe the line as “gender traitors.”
This is how we got here. It will get worse because there are no incentives to be better. It won’t end well either, but at least it will feel familiar.
|
|
Nibs
Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
|
thanks for posting...
are there enough of us just left/right of center to form a third party?
we are overdue for blowing up the two party system. And 3 isn't enough. a few more could force coalition and compromise.
compromise, currently an outdated concept.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
|
compromise, currently an outdated concept.
Compromise today merely means leaving the guillotine unsharpened.
|
|
Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 02:29pm PT
|
So back to the ongoing attempt to dismantle our democracy through strongman tactics...
The past 48 hours in Mueller investigation news, explained
http://flip.it/ssVVTq
Currently the cadre consists of a Vlad Putin, a narcissistic bafoon, his west wing allies, some Libertarian Corporate backers and a few congressional sycophants. When you have enough of these assho!es doing anything and everything to stay out of jail and maintain power, plus add a few DOJ and law enforcement officials starting to turn- the possibility of recruiting enough like minded thugs to form a Gestapo or Praetorian Guard style protection force will multiply rapidly.
|
|
Splater
climber
Grey Matter
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 02:35pm PT
|
compromise - the Dems have been doing it for decades, all while losing ground in the Federal Government.
 the Repubs have not.
|
|
Nibs
Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
|
perhaps you did not read the article Apogee posted...I thought it was cogent. I don't post often and moved to do so because that article is how I am reading the trend.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 04:47pm PT
|
Take the very high road or The Kav road, but don't forget to was up after.
Do you think the grabber would do Nikki?
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:43pm PT
|
There's a difference between conservatism and the GOP's politics. My sense from the conservatives that I know & deeply trust, and rational sources like National Review is that there's a LOT about the current 'leadership' in both the WH and Congress that they do not like at all. Yes, there are some policies and directions that align with their conservative views, but by and large they do NOT like the demeanor and tone that exists amongst the GOP, especially in the WH.
Those on the extreme end of the political spectrum tend to view the other side as homogenous....as though they are all the same. An honest effort to look more closely and listen tends to be quite enlightening.
|
|
Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:28am PT
|
^^ making lemonade out of lemons...
|
|
EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:47am PT
|
Nibs
thanks for posting...
are there enough of us just left/right of center to form a third party?
Yes. There are enough moderates for a third party.
Gallup regularly polls for party affiliation. Independents are larger than either party. Last month it was 44%. With Congress' consistently low favorably ratings, a middle of the road option would be welcome.
One big problem is the fringes are dominating the national conversation. Both sides constantly crow about the opposition. It's a vicious cycle.
Another problem is the two party have all the power and all the money. They'll fight tooth and nail to prevent a third party in the game. The devil you know.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:50am PT
|
One big problem is the fringes are dominating the national conversation.
Why do you say "fringes"? There is a right wing fringe called the GOP. The right/center party called Democrats is not a fringe. It's the middle. There's no left in this country. Sanders would be called a moderate in Europe.
It's kind of interesting that Kavanaugh believes people should be held accountable for infractions committed decades ago.
|
|
10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:53am PT
|
Both Brett and Ashley Kavanaugh served in the Bush administration I remember reading that when Kavanaugh's name first popped up. I knew he was a loser then.
|
|
HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:05am PT
|
The right/center party called Democrats is not a fringe. It's the middle
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:33am PT
|
^^^...and you voted for this racist piece of garbage:
|
|
HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:39am PT
|
^^^And you voted for this piece of garbage.
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:53am PT
|
Yeah...ok...Kavanaugh has ties to the Bush administration. So what?
He's a conservative, and developed his career amongst people that aligned with his ideology. Nothing unusual about that- we all gravitate to careers and circles of people that share our beliefs.
It seems to me to be a pretty weak argument to try to de-legitimize Kavanaugh because of his association with a POTUS that was supremely unpopular with the left (myself included). The central issues here are whether Kavanaugh has the background to be in the role of SC justice (he does), whether he has some disqualifying life experience contrary to being in such an important role (that remains an open question), and whether he can truly act as a relatively objective justice (his display at the hearings strongly questions this) in critical matters of the judiciary.
|
|
little Z
Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:56am PT
|
the two party have all the power and all the money. They'll fight tooth and nail to prevent a third party in the game.
unless it's someone like Bernie where you can guarantee all the votes will come from one or the other major party. Then bring it on. Divide and conquer.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!