Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
WBraun
climber
|
|
I see it as the role of our government to protect individuals from the cut-throat wilderness that would otherwise exist.
So .... where IS this govt?
Right now it is doing the exact opposite all over the world for many many years now .....
|
|
Norton
climber
The Wastelands
|
|
@Norton . . . after owning both a mortgage company and title company and originating, processing and closing thousands of residential mortgages of all kinds . . .
BTW, Norton, thanks for 2008!!
what years did I say I was active in the business,? duh,, get that GED first
|
|
7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
|
|
Excellent post Nutagain.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
Edit: Thanks 7SacredPools
Wbraun, it is doing the exact opposite because we citizens are asleep at the wheel. It is true we have been given sleeping pills by the wealthiest and power-hungriest folks who have the most to gain:
 superficial entertainment, gossip, and sports culture
media manipulations emphasizing us/them identities and ideological differences and wedge-issues that enable universally unacceptable stuff to pass, rather than searching for common ground and how to maximize the plurality of our viewpoints and values finding a way to coexist
media empire consolidations and diminishing accountability for distinguishing facts vs personal analysis/opinions
watering down educational standards
Probably lots of other ways that would be worthy of its own extended conversation... but the point is this:
The changes afoot, which are different variations on the themes of ruthless pursuit of power that have always been afoot, are not within our individual power to stop. But if we raise our voices and call out the sh!t where we see it, and we help wake up the people around us, and encourage more of us to engage in our civic duty to vote and give feedback to our elected representatives, we will over time improve the quality of our government and it's ability to regulate the forces that conspire to undercut our collective well-being.
When we give up hope in that system, the only alternative is acceptance of a boot crushing our faces and taking everything we have by force. Some people feel like that already, but there is always room for it to get worse. And it will get worse until enough people feel enough pain to take action to avoid that pain.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
The last guy that really stood up against these criminals and creeps was JFK and they murdered him.
So nutagain ....
Are you gonna do it instead of just talking?
Better get going or you're all talk and no go like all the rest.
Talking is soooo easy ....
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
Especially when your main source of info comes from the 15 and under check out stand...
|
|
Lituya
Mountain climber
|
|
@NutAgain
Government spending is, by definition, directed toward the common good--even if people with good intentions disagree on what that looks like. Private spending should, by and large, remain free choice. Certainly at the individual level. I reread your statement and still find it a bit conflated between the two. This may be where our (non)disagreement lies.
In any event, our government has spent itself into the cellar trying to make everyone happy--and get their votes. From my perspective, a look at total spending (not just discretionary) shows individulas are relying too much on government. And frankly, I think federal taxes on individuals are too low--and too many people don't pay in. I'm all for a sliding scale where the slope steepens as you approach the top. But a system where more than 40% of citizens don't pay federal taxes leads to divisions like those that appear in these discussions. Everyone should feel they are part of the system.
My tax complaints are all pretty much state & local.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
You are right Werner. Talk is easy. And I am afraid, as any sane person would be. The extent of my courage to overcome this fear, as of right now, is:
to speak out in public forums like this. To share what I consider to be reason with other folks who are amenable to reason.
to write letters to my elected representatives
to respond to public comment periods from federal agencies when there are issues that I am aware of and have a strong perspective about
I gave money to Bernie, first time I put cash into politics, not because I blindly believed in the cult of Bernie, but because 90% of his viewpoints resonated strongly with me
I participated in the March for Science, sharing in a widespread public rejection of the policy decisions directed by the President and his appointees
The next step would perhaps be to join political campaigns, help with fund raising or phone-call campaigns, or to stand up for public election and campaign on the platform of my positions. This is where the jaded part of my nature starts to overrule the optimistic part, and think of how I would be torn down and discredited.
What I wrestle with a lot is a sense of wanting to do something, and a sense of helplessness because the main issue is expanding the perspectives of many people who are happy with their perspective and will resist change. I am not trying to conquer anyone, to prove they are wrong- I am just trying to spread seeds of ideas that will hopefully take root in more places.
|
|
Lituya
Mountain climber
|
|
@NutAgain The changes afoot, which are different variations on the themes of ruthless pursuit of power that have always been afoot, are not within our individual power to stop. But if we raise our voices and call out the sh!t where we see it, and we help wake up the people around us, and encourage more of us to engage in our civic duty to vote and give feedback to our elected representatives, we will over time improve the quality of our government and it's ability to regulate the forces that conspire to undercut our collective well-being.
When we give up hope in that system, the only alternative is acceptance of a boot crushing our faces and taking everything we have by force. Some people feel like that already, but there is always room for it to get worse. And it will get worse until enough people feel enough pain to take action to avoid that pain.
The problem with your thesis here is that just as many of your countrymen believe government is the force that is undercutting our collective well being. Exhibit A would be it's crushing, exponential growth--particularly at state and local levels. Higher pay, benefits, perks. And, of course, lifetime pensions that almost no one in the private sector has. Your vision looks more Neo-Confucian.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
NutAgain!
I know exactly what you are doing.
You're are a good man so don't worry too much .....
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
@Lituya, I agree there is a lot of government waste. Some of it might be acceptable "horse trading" when there is no other way to get hundreds of people with different regional constituencies to agree on anything.
Before trying to tackle government corruption and waste in a more holistic way, I would focus on campaign finance reform and a media transparency regulatory framework.
Edit: As for more government bloat and fewer private sector jobs... diminishing government is not going to create more private sector jobs. It will just increase unemployment, cause less money to be in circulation buying products from those few monster private companies that are left. I see government directly hiring people as a tourniquet on the bleeding artery of America: the diminishing number of full-time jobs and the increasing technical requirements that are outpacing the ability of the populace to be trained for them. Private sector focuses on reducing jobs in every way they can without reducing profits. That will continue unabated
I would rather pay to have a government hiring people working inefficiently performing some service, ostensibly as a benefit for a segment of society, rather than just giving people a check for sitting home watching TV, or paying for more jails to house the people stealing for their next meal or a medical procedure.
|
|
Lituya
Mountain climber
|
|
Before trying to tackle government corruption and waste in a more holistic way, I would focus on campaign finance reform and a media transparency regulatory framework.
Transparency, yes. Regulatory, no. Free press. Even the press we don;t like.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
Exhibit A would be ...
Don't be shy, exhibit yourself, most here are over 14 years old.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
I see some potential vulnerabilities in my perspective, but I see a nuance in "free press": anyone should be able to publish anything, but the source of it should be traceable. I believe in having responsibility/accountability go hand-in-hand with freedom. This is what I teach my kids.
That sounds good for campaign finance, but it can be used to stop anonymous whistle-blowers and ultimately work against our democracy.
So I don't have any easy answer here but I would like to see it be a primary topic of national debate.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
Arguably, not really. He really just emphasised how politicians call on people to give them money to demonstrate their allegance to 'values'
All that with a $100 check? Lol
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
Robert L... I agree..Public school teachers are way over-payed... They should get minimum wage like some of the private christian schools pay their credentialed teachers...
|
|
Lituya
Mountain climber
|
|
And of course you need to realize;
That retired public service pensioners paid into their pension plans over their working lifetime, (some not eligible for SS) while being paid sub standard wages compared to the private sector.
Nice try though.
Not buying it. Most teachers here in WA make FAR more than the median private sector wage--and work far fewer days per year. $75-$95k or more annually depending on state scale, tri-pay, board certified, and extras. They have limited success feeding the public the whole "ongoing education" requirements as a yea-but, however these are career/advancement choices--just like anyone else. Gimme a break.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
He'd be a bad President...or worse.
|
|
Lituya
Mountain climber
|
|
Edit: As for more government bloat and fewer private sector jobs... diminishing government is not going to create more private sector jobs. It will just increase unemployment, cause less money to be in circulation buying products from those few monster private companies that are left. I see government directly hiring people as a tourniquet on the bleeding artery of America: the diminishing number of full-time jobs and the increasing technical requirements that are outpacing the ability of the populace to be trained for them. Private sector focuses on reducing jobs in every way they can without reducing profits. That will continue unabated
Strongly disagree. Private sector efficiencies can be admired and hated at the same time--but government bloat is a danger to liberty. Private sector companies will hire and pay as the market demands. Government will simply confiscate from the private sector and property owners to hire more of their own.
One place we might agree is competition. I believe most modern corporate mergers need to be severely limited--ala Teddy Roosevelt/Howard Taft style breakups even. Amazon would be a great place to start. Innovation is great--but market power is dangerous.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
Let's start with no one could possibly be worse than Nero (at my house we refuse to utter his given name)
Ryan will be marginally better although he's far more beholden to the whacko right wing.
We are of course assuming that Nero will be impeached. Which I predicted a few days after the election. Why will he be impeached? Because the Republitards will see him as a millstone around their necks and get rid of him before the mid term election or suffer greatly.
As shown in the past week, they'll do ANYTHING, including support Roy Moore in Alabama to keep their monopoly in the Congress. They have said so publicly. But their calculations are transparent and with any luck will fail thanks to the stench of Nero on them.
The Republitards have proven to be the most venal collection elected to the Congress since Reconstruction. Racist, Misogynistic, Brutal, Cruel and just plain stupid. The people will awaken and the Repubs WILL be out next midterm.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!