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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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...no one helped them
I think this is a common meme that goes around these days, that is, we do all this solely by ourselves with absolutely no help.
So that justifies our view that, no only do we have nothing to give to a community that we perceive was at best indifferent to us, but that others are not deserving of our help.
The fact is that we all benefit from each other, sometimes in small, but very important ways.
That is a part of the social contract, and unless you are going to move someplace where there isn't anyone at all, and no connection to anyone at all, you are signed up...
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c wilmot
climber
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Who helped them ed?
You are making assumptions...
Just like rbord
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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yes, I'm making assumptions... you father was accepted in the US Military, didn't that help him? it was something that was open to him and be benefited from it...
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c wilmot
climber
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Does the us military use race as a factor as to who is admitted?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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It's a sad commentary that one can only be successful if admitted to an elite (or IV League) university.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Does the us military use race as a factor as to who is admitted?
interesting question, because it has changed greatly since WWII, when african-americans had rather restricted opportunities in the US military, with very limited roles in combat.
The US military was integrated at all levels during the Truman administration, today, the racial balance is much more representative of the US population,
for instance, the US military is 67% white, 17% african-american, 4% asian, and the US population is 72% white, 13% african-american and 5% asian.
The officer ranks are: 77% white, 9% african american and 5% asian, so perhaps they are not quite there yet...
When your father enlisted, these numbers were very very different.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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But that's what happened in the US. Our white ancestors enslaved blacks, and stole their wealth, in the form of their entire lives' productivity.
A few problems with that statement.
First of all, the overwhelming majority of white Americans ancestors' did not enslave blacks. I'm sure you know that, and I imagine you can re-cast your statement to try to make the same point.
But it's interesting, at least to me, that you led with a statement that's not even close to true.
What's the average wealth of black Americans compared to black Africans?
What's the average wealth of white Americans compared to white Europeans? What if you break it down by country of origin?
Issues of wealth disparity are very complex, I certainly don't have the answers. And I don't deny that slavery in the US was something like an "original sin." But the theory that the reason why white Americans are relatively rich is that they stole the wealth of black Americans seems very dubious. (Why are modern Germans and Japanese rich? Whose wealth did they steal? Why are modern Sudanese poor? Who stole all their wealth? Shouldn't white southerners, whose ancestors had slaves, be richer than white nornethers? Are they?)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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There was no "privilege" for being white, there was no empathy from society because they were white. In fact my father was shamed and osteicized so badly for being poor ( and part of a "bad"family)he joined the military as a means of getting away.
The modest upbringing I enjoyed was s result of my parents own hard work- no one helped them
The military, until relatively recently, gave great advantages to whites. Look at how many generals are white. 4 in this white house.
In your own time, you have seen Kamala Harris be elected to the Senate, the first Indian-American so elected. I see announcements all the time of so-and-so being the first woman, black, etc, elected to their position. We are in a time of great transition.
there was that story last month, of the black girl, who had the highest GPA in her school, being forced to share top honors with a white who had scored lower.....a perfect example of "white is right", and the advantages that whites generally have.
However, poor people are still getting the short stick.
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Probably time to read some more James Baldwin, but beyond slavery I wonder how much African Americans lost in future wealth when the Fillmore district in San Francisco was torn down?
Multiply that by a thousand times across the country and you have "Urban Renewal" or what amounts to a massive redistribution of wealth.
Pretty f*#ked up if you ask me--all 400 plus years of it.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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While we might think the issue is from distant history, reviewing the history of lynching in the US is particularly horrific.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States
'On June 13, 2005, the U.S. Senate formally apologized for its failure to enact a federal anti-lynching law in the early 20th century, "when it was most needed." Before the vote, Louisianan senator Mary Landrieu noted, "There may be no other injustice in American history for which the Senate so uniquely bears responsibility."[86] The resolution was passed on a voice vote with 80 senators cosponsoring, with Mississippians Thad Cochran and Trent Lott being among the twenty U.S. senators excepted.[86] The resolution expressed "the deepest sympathies and most solemn regrets of the Senate to the descendants of victims of lynching, the ancestors of whom were deprived of life, human dignity and the constitutional protections accorded all citizens of the United States".[86]
from the link:
'Johnson said her family scattered and their fortune was lost after Crawford's lynching. His children received his land and $200 each, but an executor related to a lynch mob member kept thousands, Johnson said. The family later went bankrupt, and the property was sold for a pittance, she said.
"A family's wealth today is often based on what their grandfathers or great-grandfathers did," Johnson said, "but so many of our families had that wealth stolen as a result of lynching."'
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c wilmot
climber
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Ed- how many kids applying for college were part of that?
Do you seriously think it is ok to discriminate against kids today who had NOTHING to do with those crimes committed generations ago?
Do you not understand how regressive that is?
The only argument you people have for keeping affirmative action is crimes that happened LONG ago.
if any other race were treated in the same manner it would be called what it is- racism
Well done boys-you have become so politically brainwashed that you actually advocate for discrimination based on skin color.
How quickly the Democratic Party has returned to its roots
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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you would continue to see that there is an "injustice" leveled against a particular part of the population in the admissions policies of institutions of higher education, WITHOUT providing any evidence.
Why you are arguing here for people to be admitted to the very institutions you have reviled in your other posts does make your motive for doing so, at the very least, suspect.
What has been presented is incomplete at best, based purely on your definition of "merit," UCB would be much more highly skewed to Asian-American students, as CalTech is... one might wonder what the factors are that lead to higher performance.
And until relatively recently, a higher education was not perceived as conveying an employment advantage in a career, though it did seem to convey a social advantage, which is why admission policies were highly "selective" in the past.
Before the 1800's we have this sort of admissions requirement:
"Character, family background and a demonstrated proficiency in Latin and Greek..."
My wife would have met the proficiency requirement, but her family background would have been problematic, not to mention the biggest obstacle, she is a she... I would have struck out on all those requirements.
The issue has been, traditionally, with "merit based" admissions... in the early 1900's Harvard's President Lowell had to confront alumni fears that the success of Jewish students in demonstrating their "academic merit" on the College Examination Entrance Board (CEEB) tests would result in being "overrun by Jews." Harvard, Yale and Princeton implement a "system of holistic review" which disadvantages Jewish applicants.
So this debate is not new, and not only that, it seems to rise to serious action when some "minority" achieves a level of "academic merit" that out performs the "majority."
It is hard to avoid the perception that the rules change in order to benefit the "majority," to the detriment of the "minority."
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Charlayne Hunter-Gault broke through the racial barriers at the University of Georgia several years after I graduated. One of my high school classmates, later a professor of psychology, helped protect her from abuse by law enforcement personnel.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Charlayne Hunter-Gault broke through the racial barriers at the University of Georgia
Not just at the university, she defied the state of Georgia by marrying a white man. The governor threatened to prosecute.
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WBraun
climber
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she defied the state of Georgia by marrying a white man.
OMG !!!!!
The governor threatened to prosecute.
I just can't imagine anyone being that stoopid as that governor.
But then again there are some fked up brainwashed idiots on this planet.
What's even more fuked up is most of those brainwashed loons are people in power affecting millions and millions of peoples lives all over the planet ....
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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If you have lived in Georgia for any length of time, this sh*t would not be surprising. There are some wonderful people there, but there are also some ignorant crackers.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Do you seriously think it is ok to discriminate against kids today who had NOTHING to do with those crimes committed generations ago?
Do you not understand how regressive that is?
The only argument you people have for keeping affirmative action is crimes that happened LONG ago.
if any other race were treated in the same manner it would be called what it is- racism
Well done boys-you have become so politically brainwashed that you actually advocate for discrimination based on skin color.
Now we know: you define apologies and reparations to the Japanese-American citizens forcibly relocated to camps, and all their belongings confiscated---simple racism.
It's good to see the conservative viewpoint: if you steal things, and pass them down to your offspring, if enough generations pass, it is no longer a crime, and those descendants are perfectly ENTITLED to benefit from those things, to the detriment of the people from whom they were stolen.
Please let us in on the code: How many generations?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The University of Georgia Academic Building is named for her, along with Hamilton Holmes, as it is called the Holmes/Hunter Academic Building, as of 2001.
Oh, my God, the nerve of those people!
To pass over all the white people who attended UG, to name the building after two blacks!
Shocking!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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"The governor threatened to prosecute."
I just can't imagine anyone being that stoopid as that governor.
Are you kidding? By taking that action, he probably assured his re-election!
A perfect example of "Southern Pride" on display!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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What do we need more writers for? Nobody reads more than 140 characters now.
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