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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/medi-cal/eligibility/Pages/SB75Children.aspx
SB 75 - Medi-Cal for All Children
Children under 19 years of age are eligible for full-scope Medi-Cal benefits regardless of immigration status, as long as they meet the income standards. DHCS is working with CWDA, county human services agencies, Covered California, advocates, and other interested parties to identify and provide Medi-Cal coverage to all children under 19 with qualifying income.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I see panhandlers at freeway entrances every day. None of them appear to be illegal aliens (unless they are illegal Swedes!)
I see people living on the streets. None of them appear to be illegal aliens.
Both activities are illegal.
Is rousting these folks something that should be taking priority over robberies and killings?
Should we have a massive growth in gov't to support a huge increase in the police state? Cameras on every corner? Police cars cruising by every few minutes?
Who pays for that?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Ed you deliberately skew my comments. There is little point trying to debate you. I am kind of surprised someone if such intellect would resort to such low brow tactics.
I am not "deliberately skewing" your comments, I just don't understand your point of view.
You want the laws "actually enforced" but the reality is that all laws cannot be enforced to the point of eliminating the crimes the laws recognize. There are practical limits to the degree of enforcement, and those limits are both economic and social.
Few people would be willing to give a mouth swab so their DNA can be crossed checked with a federal data base to identify you as a US Citizen because your left rear taillight was out. It is possible that if you "profiled" as an illegal alien, you'd be more than happy to have that done, facing mistaken deportation is more of a hit to your "civil liberties."
Given the expense of implementing that sort of "extreme vetting" of US citizens, and the intrusion of your personal liberty in doing so, it may not be possible to "actually enforce" this law to the point of eliminating the criminal activity.
This is taking the argument to the extreme, but actually not beyond what has happened in some places (e.g. Arizona) in terms of a simple traffic stop.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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"C", it is just as illegal to EMPLOY an undocumented person as it is to BE undocumented.
What should we do with employers who employ such people? There are MANY who are quite open about it: farmers, factories.
They are open about it, so as you say, the law is not being enforced.
Should we lock them up?
Should we confiscate their farms and factories?
Their money was generated by illegal commerce. Should their homes, belongings, and pensions be confiscated?
If the jobs dry up, undocumented people will not come.
(But you'd probably be locking up the President......)
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Is the claim that it is not illegal to hire a uda or that it is just not as illegal as being uda?
Does it all come down to "pattern and practice"?
Yeah I hired those folks but I don't do it habitually you know.
They may be deported you know!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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VOICE? Victims Of Immigration Crime Engagement. VOICE, are you shitting me? I always hated little acronym bs like that. I had an ex boss that was always trying to do them.
Somehow I missed when Trump slid that little piece of fascism into his oh so presidential speech that I didn't listen to...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I have to take exception to this point. Clearly it is not.
The laws are on the books.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/legal-pitfalls-hiring-undocumented-immigrants.html
Beginning in 1986, though, the worksite has become an enforcement site for immigration law, with employers required to check the work authorization of every worker they hire on pain of penalties and even criminal prosecution for hiring workers who do not present appropriate documents.
As an employer, you should conclude that you are in legal peril if you knowingly employ undocumented immigrant workers, even if your business is not part of the “critical infrastructure” but just a small business trying to get by, and even if you treat your workers fairly.
If any information comes your way, subsequent to hire, that suggests a worker may not be authorized to work in the U.S., you should look into it. The reason for this is that employers can be held liable not only for actual knowledge of a worker’s undocumented status, but also for “constructive knowledge” – that is, basically, for having reason to know.
Penalties for Hiring Undocumented Immigrants
You may be subject to civil and criminal penalties for hiring undocumented immigrant workers. Civil penalties range from a minimum of $375 per unauthorized worker for a first offense up to a maximum of $1,600 per worker for a third or subsequent offense. If you are found to have engaged in a “pattern and practice” of hiring undocumented workers, then you can be fined up to $3,000 per employee and/or imprisoned for up to six months.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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You may be subject to civil and criminal penalties for hiring undocumented immigrant workers. Civil penalties range from a minimum of $375 per unauthorized worker for a first offense up to a maximum of $1,600 per worker for a third or subsequent offense. If you are found to have engaged in a “pattern and practice” of hiring undocumented workers, then you can be fined up to $3,000 per employee and/or imprisoned for up to six months.
A pittance, it's not enforced and it's flagrantly disregarded even by members of the administration. Again, it isn't rocket science - make it real money and actually put employers in prison and you won't need a wall. So long as the focus and resources are completely ass-backwards and targeted at illegal immigrants nothing will ever change. You want change shift 95% of that focus and resources on illegal employment and you will shut down illegal immigration issues by about the same amount.
I won't even dignify the white nationalism and fascism inherent in the phrase "America First" with an answer. I will comment though, that white nationalism and racism are likely the principal drivers behind trumpco cozying up with the Russians.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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The author of the NYTimes piece that TGT2 posted is Harvard Prof. George Borjas. Interestingly, Borjas immigrated from Cuba in 1950 as a child with his mother.
I am absolutely for America, I don't see that at odds with immigrants coming here, in fact, the idea of America is wonderful, it had been for so many decades a place where if you were willing to put in the work you would be rewarded for it, a meritocracy, opportunity and freedom from history.
My father immigrated from Iran maybe two years earlier than Borjas... I actually have no idea what visa he had. He was naturalized rather quickly, a US Citizen not long after his arrival.
In fact, all of our families immigrated to America, in the last century they came because of an idea of America, an idea they wanted to be a part of, and that idea was one that your effort would be rewarded and you'd reap the benefits.
The land of opportunity.
But they all knew that they would have to work hard to take advantage of that opportunity.
That's an America want to see as first.
An America that closes its boarders and turns away people, that doesn't see the interest in the benefit of the common welfare of the entire world, that stops believing that it has a responsibility to that world, that lives in hiding fearing neighbors; I don't have much for an America like that...
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
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zBrown
Ice climber
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So to bring it all back home to where I started way back, the contention is that it's
Less illegal to hire than to be uda,
Herr Braun is sometimes wrong, but he is in the main correct.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Ed, it's a weird Cuban thing. They are very different than other Latino/Hispanic populations in that they are rigidly conservative and, despite having benefitted from the generous immigration perks they received as refugees from Castro, do not believe that others should receive the same benefits. Just as the Spanish believe themselves superior to those from Latin America (which I believe has its roots in racism--no intermingling of Indian or African blood), many Cubans believe themselves similarly pure. As someone who's latino background is Mexican/Salvadoran, to use a perjorative, they act like their sh#t doesn't stink.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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I won't even dignify the white nationalism and fascism inherent in the phrase "America First" with an answer. I will comment though, that white nationalism and racism are likely the principal drivers behind trumpco cozying up with the Russians.
Hmm, maybe I'm not following you, but I thought real Nazi types don't like Russians, as Hitler considered Slavs to be inferior, not part of the master race, and planned to annihilate and/or enslave them.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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So to bring it all back home to where I started way back, the contention is that it's
Less illegal to hire than to be uda,
Granted, but the argument that has since been presented that ALL laws must be enforced EQUALLY, all the time.
In essence, equal effort MUST be expended on arresting jaywalkers as murderers! We cannot let those scofflaws get away with it.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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One part of the economic argument that I've not seen discussed much, is the falling birthrate of the US===below replacement levels at this point. This means that all of our economic systems, which are dependent upon new people coming in at the bottom, and financing the retirement of all the older people, is becoming skewed, and will be increasingly strained.
What we will have to do is recruit several million people from other countries, which will cost BILLIONS.
In addition, we will have to get rid of all these illegals---which will also cost BILLIONS and BILLIONS.
OR
We could acknowledge that we already have those replacement people here, NOW. Make them legal, like Saint Ronald did, then have rational immigration policies that allow people in to work the jobs that go wanting.
But NO, we'd much rather spend billions of tax dollars making ourselves feel superior.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Granted, but the argument that has since been presented that ALL laws must be enforced EQUALLY, all the time.
Real can'O'worms right there. Who decides who gets prosecuted? Prosecutors.
How do they operate? Unfettered except by their own judgments.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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TGT2 is causing climate change...See above picture...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Randisi has an interesting story which should be told, and it is shocking to some of us because it is in stark contrast to that ideal America which we hold. Making America a better place, a place that does live up to that ideal, is a work in progress.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trump is continuing Obama's policy's on deportation...Same number of deports ..? Correct me if i'm wrong...Why the hysteria over mass deportations...? Fake news to bolster ratings...? Unauthorized immigrants surely must know that being deported with out notice is a risk they face when they sneak across the border ....?
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Raad my link above. You will see deportation policy expanded to include people with families and jobs who follow ICE rules and report regularly.
When you seek to hire 10K ICE agents for stepped up enforcement, you are not behaving like the previous administration.
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