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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 20, 2006 - 04:24pm PT
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I completely agree with jstan. There's a lot we can all do to reduce our individual impacts, without any sacrifice, just a little forethought. A bonus would be reduced reliance on foreign oil. (Well, actually, I'm Canadian. We export oil, and other energy. Mostly to guess who? But we have to be more responsible, too.)
I'm astonished by DaftRat's naivete in believing that King Abdullah of Jordan would be a credible ruler of anything more, except with massive foreign military support. He's barely above water even in Jordan. The Hashemite family was imposed on Transjordan in the early 1920s, after they were forced out of Arabia, and the branch imposed on Iraq was murdered in 1958. The Jordanian government is better than many others in the middle east, but Turkey, Morocco and even Iran are arguably more democratic. (In the sense that late 19th century U.S. was democratic, anyway.)
Most middle east governments have allowed their militaries to dwindle since the 1970s. Particularly Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. They know they can't beat Israel in conventional war, even if united. The disappearance of Soviet support, and the attrition of the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-88, and the Gulf War and its aftermath, make it all the more pointless, not to mention more pressing domestic needs.
Israel also has the fallbacks of its nuclear weapons (between 20 and 50, tested in the South Atlantic in November 1979), and limitless U.S. backing. DaftRat's fantasies of a middle east acopalypse are just that. The place has problems, including mostly incompetent governments, overpopulation, foreign meddling, unbalanced economies, and environmental. There'll be lots of nastiness, as these things get worked out. A massive conflagration? No.
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Erik
Ice climber
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Dec 21, 2006 - 12:38pm PT
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I completely agree with jstan. There's a lot we can all do to reduce our individual impacts, without any sacrifice, just a little forethought. A bonus would be reduced reliance on foreign oil. (Well, actually, I'm Canadian. We export oil, and other energy. Mostly to guess who? But we have to be more responsible, too)
Such idealism is nice, but unfortunately the U.S. government will have none of it. Just last year Congress voted down a proposal that would have made auto manufacturers increase the fuel economy of their new models. What the hell does that say?
There's too much money involved in big oil for such quaint notions as "responsibility" and "security" and "environment" to be adhered to by those in charge.
In the meantime, violence in Iraq continues to rage...
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2006 - 02:26pm PT
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http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/12/21/12969/
gW's world is crumbling all around him-
go ahead fatty, watch this video (of joe scarbrough's MSNBC show), i dare you...
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2006 - 03:18pm PT
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watch the video
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Dec 21, 2006 - 03:21pm PT
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"watch the video"
It HAS to be true.
I saw it on TV!
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jstan
climber
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Dec 21, 2006 - 03:31pm PT
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Erik:
You know I would agree with you if the CEO's of oil companies, and others, were a different kind of people than they are. The CEO of Goldman Sachs just got an annual bonus of $53,000,000. Now if half Goldman's customers went to another firm and he could only give himself a $25,000,000 bonus he would be beside himself. Hurt to the quick. Shattered. I am not yet ready to concede that we all are, once again, reduced to being serfs. We threw some tea into Boston Harbor once over this.
Cheers,
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Dec 21, 2006 - 03:50pm PT
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I've found I'm happier when I concern myself with what I make, instead of what other people are making.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2006 - 04:33pm PT
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caz-
it's not true, or false, it's opinion(s)
specifically, it's illustrative of (now) mainstream opinions that seem to resemble mine, rather than _'s.
feel free to, you know, click on the damn link...
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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Dec 21, 2006 - 04:49pm PT
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matt, thanks for posting the link. f$#@!!! Fatty, watch it, ya might learn something.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 22, 2006 - 01:48pm PT
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Fattrad, you're right, we need to send 200k troops to Israel tomorrow and take control of the situation and disarm both sides in order to force a resolution.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Dec 22, 2006 - 02:29pm PT
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Fatty,
Yawn, just another Zionist stooge towing the party line.
I'd like to see you comment on the election that just happened in Iran.
Just 20 of those elected in their "mid-term" elections were pro-ahmadinejad.
That means 80% were anti-ahmadinejad.
Not too far off from our own mid-term elections here.
Basically the population rejected his rhetoric and policies, just as the public here rejected Bush's policies and rhetoric.
Iran and the U.S. are not that far off from each other.
A sane population being led by idiots.
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 22, 2006 - 03:46pm PT
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What you are overlooking Fatty is that the Iranian presidents are subject to the ruling clerics. Interestingly, government newspapers, which serve as the voice of the clerics, have been critical of Amanawhat'shisname increasing isolation of Iran. Amanawhat'shisname might have gone too far even for the conservative clerics.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Dec 22, 2006 - 04:38pm PT
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Fatty,
"I know the American people are unhappy about the poor state of their economy and the wild ramblings of the president."
Seems this glove fits on many hands......
Anyway, please, go to Israel.
That is where your heart truly is.
You consistently put qualifiers in your statements that all converge to one point.
No mater what Israel does, the US must do her bidding completely even if Israel is in the complete wrong.
That is not friendship that is, US-is-Israel's-bitch!
Hey, I still have not heard from you as to why you are laying low on the AIPAC slogans these days.
Did Zack tell you to turn it down a bit?
You REALY want to be in the political arena Mr. GOP?
Hope you are up for it. It can get nasty.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Dec 22, 2006 - 04:51pm PT
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Whitey,
You are soooo right.
Especially after those all night-coke binges with male paiges and Geoff Gannon in the oval office.
Born again my a*#. Short for moraly bankrupt and looking for a way out.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Dec 22, 2006 - 04:55pm PT
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Fatty,
He seems like a very nice person. And genuinely concerned about how AIPAC's message is being brought to the Ameican public.
That's why I'm totally blown away that they will let people like you into their organization.
I will continue to voice my opinions and concerns.
I realy hope you run for office some day.
It would be fun to expose you for what you realy are, a monster.
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