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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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It's funny Richard that as soon as we three were going to sit down and settle our differences you chose to attack NACHA and the work that I am doing instead so it would seem that you really don't want to resolve anything.
Care to enlighten me on your timing there?
My "enlightenment on my timing" is simple: This supposed event is another fabrication of your "memory." Please enlighten us all, with objective evidence, about this supposed "sit-down" event.
The only "sit-down" event that was going to take place in that time-frame was that you were in contact with Jeff Vargen about setting up a public debate. He was working on a venue, and I was agreed. Then you backed out. You were still very publicly attacking us, and you've never recanted in any respect, including your publicly-stated (in the documentary) intention to just let us die up there.
That last is particularly interesting, as the event to which you refer in the documentary never occurred. You mention that "near the top" that "storms had moved in," and that we were supposedly "in a bad way up there." Not one iota of that is reality. Oh, except for the fact that you WERE of a mindset to happily sit by and watch anything that might befall us.
In actual FACT (as documented) there were no storms when we were "near the top," and we were never "in a bad way" in any sense that might have precipitated rescue. We were hungry, but we were always in full control of the situation. So, the "almost rescue" you allude to in that sick section of the documentary was a scenario that you invented out of whole cloth to make a pretty sick point.
My point here is that throughout the years, and as evidenced most recently right here, right now, you have NEVER been in "sit down and work out our differences" mode. You have had ONE mode: attack, slander, invent "evidence," and attack some more. Our "differences" is a pretty euphemistic way to refer to your decades of public defamation.
So, yeah, when you publicly stand up calling yourself a "historian" (which implies training and objectivity that you entirely lack), and you invent an obviously self-serving site (and acronym) for "your work," you can bet that I'm gonna call you out on that, particularly when your "history" has ALWAYS been "versioned" as you solely saw fit. Steve, whatever else you are, seriously man, you are a "librarian" rather than a "historian," and there is a HUGE difference between the two.
Quit inventing "evidence" and "timelines" of "events" that never happened, and that just might be the basis of some talk about our "differences." Meanwhile, I'm SO past the whole thing, except for the need now and then to straighten out the fresh messes you seem compelled to introduce. As I asked before, can you just leave it alone at this point? I have NO desire to keep "mixing it up" with you. I'm past it, and you SHOULD be too!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Pete- You won't get by the doorman.
The Vargen sit down is the event in question. If you really wanted to bridge our differences why attack NACHA which has pretty broad support right after we all agree to get together?
Like I said, I avoid the whole WOS debate as much as possible these days which I'm sure you have noticed. I can certainly turn the other cheek...
A simple question and you answered it. Thanks.
Let's stay on Sloan.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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The Vargen sit down is the event in question. If you really wanted to bridge our differences why attack NACHA which has pretty broad support right after we all agree to get together?
If you want to call the Vargen DEBATE a "sit down," well, that's new to me. As Jeff explained it to me, you had stated that you didn't feel like the documentary really got to the nature of the real issues you've had with us over the decades. It was cast as a DEBATE rather than "sit-down," and it was going to be public, which is not a venue in which one "works out differences."
I've never had the slightest sense, and still don't, that you cared to "get on the same page" or "bury the hatchet" or anything of the sort. And I have never seen any context on any subject in which a "public debate" was intended to be or actually was used as a "sit down" to "discuss our differences."
Steve, you have ALWAYS and without exception been in flat-out enemy mode. I have not wanted to view you as an enemy. In fact, in another universe, we might have even been friends. Believe it or not, I think that our basic climbing drive has been much the same, and I have respected your expressed ethic (although I don't agree that it's the "only valid way").
But you have relentlessly cast me as a liar, and fake; and that debate was cast to ME as your effort to once and for all expose me as such in public. In NO sense is that a "sit down" in which we're going to seek for common ground.
I'll say here that I'm always open to that sort of discourse, as long as it can be based upon a starting point of my basic integrity. As long as you perpetually call that into question as the foundation of your attacks, you remain in enemy mode.
Regardless of how that plays out, I do not agree to call you a "historian" or think that NACHA is "historically credible." There are lots of reasons for that, which are probably better avoided in the context of this thread. But my "poking fun" at you is the most MINIMAL "tit-for-tat" you could expect in a context in which you are using that "historian" credibility to express the "real" WoS story.
Quit being my enemy; I'm not yours, even after all these decades. Stay off of your "version" of WoS, and you'll get no responses from me. Have fun with NACHA; I really don't give a rat's left testicle about it. But when you try to use such an "organization" to prop up your credibility as "historian" and then use that as a basis for "credible" ongoing attacks on my integrity, well, yup, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm going to rip on that.
Edit: while I was writing this, you back-edited to make this irrelevant. But I don't delete posts. So, this was a response to your question that you now say I already answered.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Somewhere, in a parallel universe...
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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I pretty much feel how ThisJustIn feels about Grossman....
Grossman I respect what you have put up and think you have a valid argument and don't see you as a pussy. You definitely come off as a dick though. Maybe you are fine with that and I'm not saying you should change if you are, but I tend to not listen to your rants because of this fact.
Steve we've never met but your reputation as both a bold climber and a bit of a blowhard who owes those WOS guys an apology precedes you. You're probably a swell dude but your persona, both online and on film portray a grumpy, washed-up dude who touts "ethics" (as arbitray as that is) as a reason to be a dick. I think at this point most folks don't really care what you have to say about climbing in general. And that's on you. Maybe that's who you really are, maybe not....but you have to understand how many of us see you based on your actions, attitude and words. WOS turned out to be a burly route and it seems like you were wrong and owe those dudes an apology. To keep all that angst over a seldom done route burning deep in your busom is just downright strange and unhealthy if you ask me. But oh well....just my opinion as a punter whose opinion is probably totally irrelevant in the climbing world. I hope you learn to chillax and enjoy the company of the climbing community in the years to come. Your routes and dedication to this silly sport of ours are proud contributions in a historical sense and you can be proud of that. Stay stoked on the good stuff and chill out a bit on your tone and we'll all enjoy your input a bit more.
Over and out.
Scott
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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holy potatoes starchman!
this thread is like this boulder...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Richard. Quit ranting. Set up the meeting. At Facelift. Do this!
And dude .... it's "an" not "a" historian.
Please speak the Queen's English. WE won The War of 1812, you know....
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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True, dat.
Grossman definitely pushed standards on El Cap in a number of ways, free climbing, hooking, clean aid, and soloing. From the evidence of recent hardmen, it does sound like WOS guys, Richard and Mark, did some of the hardest hooking on El Cap at the time. Nuances such as enhancements, bathooks, average number of bolts per meter, etc, can be argued ad infinitum. There's certainly no absolutes, and people can agree to disagree, but I do think that historians need to look at it all more objectively, something not too apparent in these internet disputes.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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John,
To be an historian,one must be objective. Steve has never demonstrated objectivity. He is, at best, a librarian.
Munge. Pls make your image smaller.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Pete. The "An" vs "A" historian depends on whether or not you choose to pronounce the "H". Words which begin with a vowel sound get "an". Those which begin with a consonant get "a". An Orator. A climber. Historian is ambiguous. An-Istorian. A Historian.
Now back to your regularly scheduled mud-sling. It's a mud-fight over an argument.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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35m and you'll only need one rope. Bitchin. Haters gonna hate.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Richard. Quit ranting. Set up the meeting. At Facelift. Do this!
Pete. Quit trying to be the boss of me. It's not on me to set up a meeting. I'm not gonna make it to Facelift this year; I'm climbing something elsewhere. And I am going to do that!
"The Queen's English," LOL... more like a typo. ha
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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this thread is like this boulder...
That looks to be about the same size, shape, consistency, and even texture of a kidney stone I passed some years back.
I'm happy to report that I bore it like a hard-man climber should:
moaning
sniveling
retching all over the floor
begging for morphine instead of the useless crap they had been trying (and which was finally administered)
and other histrionics
to the amusement of the nurse who later told me: "I've had three kids and one kidney stone. I'd take the three kids in back-to-back succession before another kidney stone."
Ah, sorry, thread drift. Munge, it's your fault.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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#WHITEPEOPLEPROBLEMS
#ELCAPSELFIE
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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His mental condition is worsening.
With every retro-bolt he installs and gets away with, he gains additional illusory validation and acceptance of his vandalism, and he becomes more empowered by the self-delusion that he is doing the right thing.
So sad.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Do you mental midgets really think slandering Erik while he isn't here to defend himself is actually going to accomplish anything?
Are you mental health professionals all of a sudden? Care to diagnose some of the other crazies on this forum? Yeah, we get it. You really don't like him. Some of you down right HATE him.
Send him an angry letter. Give him a call. Go see him and yell at him. Go harass him on Mountain Project. Anything is better than these non-stop harangues!
You hear about all these things going on in the world. You don't even have to go far; look at what is happening in your own country. And then you all come here and get all riled up and gush vitriol over some pieces of metal in a f*#king rock? Holy crap!
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Narcissist ^^^^
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Wow! Pete does look good slightly sunburned. Anita, you are too tan in that pic to qualify much as"White people"
Good smiley selfie, but if you weren't rapping it's off topic.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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It's just dirt, clinker.
I look really dark on my little profile picture. I didn't want to shower right away for fear of losing my awesome tan!
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klaus
climber
Slauson & Crenshaw
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.
"With every retro-bolt he installs and gets away with, he gains additional illusory validation and acceptance of his vandalism, and he becomes more empowered by the self-delusion that he is doing the right thing."
What's happening on the Nose doesn't matter. It's the constant power retrobolting by this asssshole that is the issue. He needs to be stopped and no Valley "Locals" will
do it. Werner is on Sloan's side, he said it. Is there anyone in Yosemite that cares about lunatics with a power drill going ape sh#t with it? Everyone seems to enjoy the extra bolts that he sprays all over.
Coz and Kurt Smith were busted for upgrading the Muir anchors. Sloan is an out of control POWER DRILLING addict. Why does the Park Service not arrest him? They should
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