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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Sep 25, 2016 - 02:33am PT
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60,000 tools?
Standing for our National Anthem is a practice supported by the overwhelming majority.
Suck it up, you whiny bitches.
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Sep 25, 2016 - 07:10am PT
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More like 60,000 idiots.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Sep 25, 2016 - 07:10am PT
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when Trump is elected, everyone will stand and salute or be thrown over the wall
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 25, 2016 - 07:13am PT
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If the Niners have trouble filling seats in the stadium this year ( they just might, they may be off to a decent start now, but the Niners only get to play the Rams one more time this season ) they should consider starting Kaepernick. A lot of people will buy tickets just to see him get knocked on his ass a few times.
I used to tune in to Bears games just to watch McMahon get knocked on his ass.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Sep 29, 2016 - 10:33am PT
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Looking through some of the media on the subject:
One poll showed a large racial divide, with blacks approving of Kaepernick's protest 72% to 19%, while whites disapproved of his protest by 69% to 23%. No discussion on which group were Americans, and which group were free thinkers or condescending as#@&%es.
Another interesting article where Kaepernick said that his adoptive parents "agree with what I'm standing for," while his adoptive parents declined to comment, saying "It's not in our best interest or Colin's best interest (for us to comment)."
One of the neighbors in the neighborhood where they live said Kaepernick's protest has been met with resounding disapproval by residents in the community.
I'm glad that his adoptive parents have his best interests at heart, but I'm sorry that he had to be raised in a neighborhood that disapproved of him so strongly. But maybe that was better than living in a neighborhood where he would be approved of 72% to 19%, but where his adoptive parents might be disapproved of. You know how Americans can be.
IMHO, when we process the complexity of this stuff using our simplistic heuristic belief processes, we're bound to make a few mistakes.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 29, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
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What if you agree with what KC's saying, but you think he can choose a better time and place?
Maybe do something that's not so divisive and potentially counterproductive? Like focusing his efforts on voter registration.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 29, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
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It must suck to find something to be miserable about everywhere you look
For black males it sucks to be confronted with something miserable everywhere you turn and be at risk every time you have an interaction with the police.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Sep 29, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
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Except they are not at risk "every time" they interact with the police. That's a prejudiced statement. There are plenty of police who are capable and don't treat black people any different. Granted there's plenty to be concerned about, but saying are at risk from every cop only perpetuates prejudice, stereotypes and lack of understanding.
I see a lack of understanding and the other point of view so often from both sides. Some people say "It's the black guys fault, he didn't do what he was supposed to do" and some people say "it's the cop's fault, he shouldn't have used deadly force".
For the majority of these bad situations in the national press lately it seems both the cop and the citizen contributed to the situation. The citizen not doing what they should have (although sometimes they do like it seems with Philando Castile) and the cop over reacting (but if you felt your life was at risk you may too) perhaps due to prejudice or worse.
The black lives matter people should be saying "we are concerned about unequal treatment of black citizens" but they should also be educating people about what to do if approached by police "don't resist arrest, do what the police say". And the other side should be saying "cops need to protect themselves" but also "these high profile deaths of unarmed black people is concerning and we need better training and community outreach". No one wants to admit their side did anything wrong.
Eric Garner is a great example (the guy put in a choke hold getting arrested for allegedly selling cigarettes in NY). He shouldn't have resisted arrest (even if he wasn't doing anything wrong) and the cop shouldn't have put him in a choke hold. But you almost never heard either side admitting that both he and the cops contributed to the situation.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Sep 29, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
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Obama's recent comments about Kapernick are spot on IMO:
"I want Mr. Kaepernick and others who are on a knee to listen to the pain that that may cause somebody who, for example, had a spouse or a child who was killed in combat and why it hurts them to see somebody not standing," Obama said. " I also want people to think about the pain he may be expressing about somebody who's lost a loved one that they think was unfairly shot. One of thing I saw about American democracy is that it can be frustrating, but it’s the best system we’ve got.”
“I also always try to remind folks that part of what makes this country special is that we respect people's rights to have a different opinion and to make different decisions on how they want to express their concerns,” he said. “The test of our fidelity to our Constitution, to freedom of speech, to our Bill of Rights, is not when it's easy, but when it's hard. We fight sometimes so that people can do things that we disagree with, but that’s what freedom means in this country.”
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
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It always seemed odd to have the star spangled banner played before sporting events. The last few years, baseball games have increasingly played "god bless America" during the 7th inning stretch. What's wrong with the classic "take me out to the ballgame?"
Anyway, having to stand up and sing star spangled banner is basically a somewhat forced public display of patriotism. I stand and do it anyway, but if they stopped playing it altogether I wouldn't miss it. Just one more reason for folks to get their panties bunched up. I'm pretty sure the union won't fall because CK sits it out.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Sep 30, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
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The Department of Defense paid NFL teams more than $5 million over four years to buy moments that honored troops. This includes the Singing of the National Anthem and Honor Guards. It's all just marketing, Stupid Americans. . .paid patriotism. . .
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Sep 30, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
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You mean the Department of Pork ?
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Sep 30, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
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What if you agree with what KC's saying, but you think he can chose a better time and place?
IMHO, totally reasonable for us to believe that other people can believe and behave in ways that we better approve of.
In the calculus of our human belief formations about what behaviors we approve of in this particular human, 72% of blacks approve of his protest, while only 23% of whites approve of it. But I'm sure there are also other variables involved in the calculus of our beliefs about how this person should behave.
For me, part of my calculus is that it's an expression of our white privilege for a white person to raise a black child in a neighborhood where they're disapproved of by 69%, instead of a neighborhood where they're approved of by 72%, because raising them in an environment where they're approved of might involve a loss of OUR white privilege of enjoying the racially disparate approval of OUR racial brethren. And in the magnanimity of our racial privilege, where 150 years after slavery ended, median white household wealth is still 13 times(!) median black household wealth, we believe that subjecting them to such a "superior" environment is an expression of OUR racial compassion, instead of an expression of our white privilege.
Like an east-side Sierran neighborhood maybe, where it's 85% white and 0% black according to the 2010 census. What a bummer for Kaepernick to be raised in a town like that, that disapproved of him so strongly, however well-meaning we and his adoptive parents believe that we are, and however successfully we're able to hide that disapproval, and couch it in seemingly well-reasoned, but obviously racially disparate, beliefs.
But, we're not all all bad - even Trump says that not ALL Mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals. I'm inclined to believe that you, gentle reader, are one of the good ones.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 30, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
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Except they are not at risk "every time" they interact with the police.
Compared to a white person? Every time.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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So you are saying every cop is racist. I don't agree.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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He didn't say that. Raise the dialogue and try to understand. And if you really agree with Obama then realize that he's asking for understanding in both direction. If I take a knee it's because false patriots send young men to murder and die for bad reasons and bad thinking.
As you were.
American False Patriots are defined as Pro-US Military, Pro-Militarized Police, and usually as American Muscular Christians ( not the pacifists like their Jesus was.)
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Okay then explain the claim: Why are black people are more at risk than white people "every time" they interact with police?
Maybe he was trying to say statistically on average they are more at risk, which is true, but to say "every time" they interact is a very different claim.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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And honestly I had no idea so many people took the National Anthem to have such a militaristic bent. Yes it's lyrics are intertwined with a military fight, but anthems are typically celebrations of a group and in particular a country not the military.
I've always thought of it primarily as a celebration of the USA. I consider myself a citizen of the world first, but I'm also proud and appreciative of my country. It's not perfect. But there is a lot to love and a lot of the ideals of freedom, justice, and equality that are foundational to the USA have since spread across the world.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Okay then explain the claim: Why are black people are more at risk than white people "every time" they interact with police?
Every single time a black person interacts with the police it's like playing roulette. It's not a matter of of whether all cops act in a prejudicial manner - it's a matter of never knowing which you're dealing with and every single time a black person gets stopped they're at risk of dealing with a bad cop and their odds in that respect are way, way higher than for a white person.
Checkout the latest: Man sitting on his mother's porch beaten by cops even after showing id with the address of the house.
City council voted unanimously Monday to permanently sanction Officer Travis Cole for using excessive force during the June arrest. The body camera footage shows Cole roughly throwing Dejuan Yourse to the floor of the porch and punching him as Yourse waited for his mom to come home and let him into the house, according to local news WREG.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Oct 10, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
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I think it’s dumb and disrespectful. I would have the same answer if you asked me about flag burning.... I think it’s a terrible thing to do, but I wouldn’t lock a person up for doing it. I would point out how ridiculous it seems to me to do such an act.
If they want to be stupid, there’s no law that should be preventive. If they want to be arrogant, there’s no law that prevents them from that... What I would do is strongly take issue with the point of view that they are expressing when they do that.
Morons!
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