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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 14, 2017 - 02:18pm PT
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PTPP,
I think Mr. Way's response was more like this:
"I am not impressed. Everybody makes big cams."
When are you going to be in the Valley? I have your repaired VG9, ready to go. I can send it to the front desk of Mr. Majestyk's Mountain Motel.
It's located at One Ahwanhee Road, near the base of the Royal Arches route.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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May 14, 2017 - 09:56pm PT
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Those 1964 turnbuckle Crack Jacks freak me out! The aluminum one looks cool.
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edavidso
Trad climber
Oakland, CA
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May 14, 2017 - 10:01pm PT
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Hey Tom, thanks for the kind words. My cams have not been used extensively yet, to say the least, so we'll see if they are able to gain the admirable track record that yours have over the past 15+ years.
We were on vacation last week in the Moab area so not much progress on any cams but was back at it today and got several more soldered up. Just waiting on axles to come in at this point to get the remainder of the second part of the first batch out. The initial axle machine shop is back to ghosting me so I'm not going to count on them delivering anything. Axles from the other machine shop should be about 3 weeks out.
There has been some confusion on how to get the trigger lock to lock the cam in the retracted position. Sorry, my video was hastily made and not very clear. I will try to make one that is more clear. In the meantime, use the video for reference on what the locked position should look like: The cam needs to be in the fully retracted position for it to lock. If you are stronger than myself (not saying much) you might be able to do this with one hand. Otherwise, it is easiest to put the handle loop against your chest and use your other hand to push the backside of the lobes into the retracted position. Then use your trigger hand to twist the trigger 30 degrees to locked position. This is how I do it in the video. Another way to do it is to retract as far as you can with your trigger hand and then press the backside of the lobes down against the floor or a wall to get them to fully retract. Hope this helps.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 17, 2017 - 08:56pm PT
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The 8" Merlin was much appreciated yesterday
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edavidso
Trad climber
Oakland, CA
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May 17, 2017 - 09:26pm PT
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Here are a couple slow motion videos of pull tests I've done on prototypes as I've described in previous posts. One has a thinner handle loop breaking at 11 kN. The part that falls off at the end of the test is part of my "crack", not part of the cam. I used thicker wire rope on the handle loop for the next test (and all subsequent cams) but used a coarser webbing stitch that broke at 12 kN. If you listen closely to that video, you can hear a few individual strands breaking before the whole thing goes. Definitely watch both with sound! Both were somewhat surprisingly still operable after the tests. Both were tested in an 8" crack at the middle of the cam's range.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Stephen McCabe
Trad climber
near Santa Cruz, CA
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May 17, 2017 - 10:21pm PT
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I'm interested in a #8 Merlin.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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May 18, 2017 - 09:23am PT
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Hourglass Right in Yosemite is another climb that would be really scary without a #9
it was scary with #9 too.
Pour some out for the fallen soldier of that memorable day.
Look away, Tom!
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Northern California
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May 18, 2017 - 09:39am PT
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I'd like to buy a used VG #9 if anyone has one for sale. (Have one on order, may not be built in time). Please PM me directly.
Thanks
T
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 19, 2017 - 10:07pm PT
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Mr_T,
I can loan you one of mine off my rack, and then swap it when your ordered VG9 is ready. Email me at
valleygiant.com
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 20, 2017 - 03:45am PT
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Now That's customer service!
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jun 27, 2017 - 06:56am PT
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jun 27, 2017 - 04:59pm PT
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I received my Merlin #8 today, too! (serial #0016)
What a beautiful tool!!!
Thanks to Erick for sharing the dream.
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Matt's
climber
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Jun 27, 2017 - 09:39pm PT
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I received mine today (#14).
Unreal build quality, unreal weight. When the lobes are locked, its more compact than a #5.
Clearly someone smart put a lot of thought into the design.
No disrespect, but a valley giant looks like a high school shop project compared to this thing.
Best
Matt
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Late Starter
Social climber
NA
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Jun 28, 2017 - 05:09am PT
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No disrespect, but a valley giant looks like a high school shop project compared to this thing.
Well, is does seem disrespectful^^.
I'd take function over aesthetics any day. Not to imply the Merlin is less functional, but from what I've seen of Valley Giants, they are built exceptionally well/strong with a lot of thought and detail.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jun 28, 2017 - 11:59am PT
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The Merlin #8 cam certainly looks beautiful, complex and time-intensive to make. It's amazing that it is made in the USA, but has the same price as a plain-Jane Valley Giant VG9.
But, for the same price, the Merlin does not provide the same strength as a Valley Giant. But, then again, maybe today, with sticky rubber, ultra-thin lead ropes, microlight carabiners, and a climbing culture weaned on stories about free solos of Half Dome and El Capitan, the strength of a gear placement is no longer relevant.
Has anyone ever fallen on a Merlin cam? Or even hauled a heavy bag from one? Structural behavior in a restrictive testing frame is not going to accurately reflect how a cam works in an uneven rock crack under adverse loading conditions. The failure mode for a big cam is through sideways deflection and bending of the lobes (see the photo I posted earlier in this thread). The Valley Giant cam lobes have solid metal near the axle, because that is where the bending stresses are highest. Big voids, right at the axle, would reduce the strength quite a bit.
By the way, Theron Moses came through for me yesterday, and cut out a run of Valley Giant VG9 and VG12 cam lobes for me.
So, just in case anyone out there wants a "high school shop project" that isn't just a pusher piece, but can actually hold a fall, or be used as a hauling or rescue anchor, and that has over fifteen years of proven use, I will have some more Valley Giant cams ready soon.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jun 28, 2017 - 01:45pm PT
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It was just Matt that took the "gentle swing" - he likes to "stir the pot" sometimes, I think!
Not planned marketing at all.
Strength vs. weight:
 24kn tested, 17kn rated, 880g, VG9
12kn tested, __kn rated, 568g, Merlin #8
__kn tested, 14kn rated, 557g, Camalot C4 #6
__kn tested, 14kn rated, 155g, Camalot C4 #2
__kn tested, 12kn rated, 126g, Camalot Ultralight #2
__kn tested, 24kn rated, 33g, WC Helium carabiner (10kn gate open)
Falling on a big cam is unlikely - usually they are pushed above or used for aid.
On aid the leader can usually control the direction of loading.
On aid the leader will likely have a second cam close by,
but will want the cam they are on to not fail while placing the other one!
(That's why I normally use 3 when backcleaning - 2 in the rock at all times).
Most hauling is on big bolts these days.
I hauled a couple of pitches on the Muir Wall on WC Friends with no problems (before later parties with heavier bags added belay bolts).
12kn is plenty for hauling, as you control the loading direction.
Also hauled some Horse Chute pitches on original 1/4" bolts with Leeper hangers, before the bolts were replaced.
We are just lucky to have both these types of giant cams available.
I've used far worse and lived but was scared the most recent time (the Kuate)!
If you are aid climbing, the extra weight of the VG9 may not be a big deal.
If you are free climbing and pushing the cam above you in an ow, the Merlin #8 is clearly better, as it's 312g lighter
(equal to carrying 2 more Camalot C4 #2s or about 9 Helium biners).
Bottom line: does it need to be stronger than 12kn?
That's the strength of a Camalot Ultralight #2 (and about the same as a C4 #2).
I haven't heard of people complaining that Camalots are too weak....
It's true that off axis loading is less of an issue for a Camalot #2,
but it may not be much of an issue for a giant cam most of the time.
The cool thing is that people have a choice and can go either way.
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Matt's
climber
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Jun 28, 2017 - 01:50pm PT
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i think the mere fact that clint cummins bought one of these cams is perhaps the greatest advertisement ever-- that dude is the biggest dirtbag I know!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jun 28, 2017 - 01:59pm PT
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Haha, too true!
I also bought a Silent Partner some years ago on ebay because I wanted one for a long time and they were not for sale; they are no longer being made.
I figure the same thing is true for really good giant cams -
they are available because their designers want to help out fellow climbers,
and if they get tired of the manufacturing hassles or distracted by work / life,
the cams will become very hard to obtain on the used market.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Jun 28, 2017 - 05:28pm PT
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#15 here, absolutely beautiful workmanship. Headed to Vedauwoo this weekend and can't wait to play with this one side by side w my Giants.
Regarding comparisons, I think Clint nailed it re free climbs, this will be my first choice for a confidence boost on pitches where a push piece is wanted. If I ever get the guts to do Excalibur you better believe the VG's will be the first thing on my rack. Seems like comparing an F150 to a Model S. Both are amazing, but w different strengths. Guess a better comp would be an ultralight C4 to a 3rd gen camalot, the former being cutting edge, the latter so solidly built that I'll likely hand a set off to each of my kids when I need them.
I can't thank Tom or Erick enough for making these niche pieces for a picky market and allowing me to continue to do the climbs I love while maintaining the added safety margin I've accepted as necessary with the addition of my kids.
Drinks are on me next time either of you is in SLC.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Jun 28, 2017 - 06:05pm PT
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Well I don't want to get in the middle of a large cam device war here.
Erick - I just received the Merlin cam today. It is incredible!!!! What a fantastic design and well crafted!!! I give you big props on your amazing design of this cam! I love it and can't stop playing with it!!! I am excited to show it off to all of my friends tomorrow at the gym and see their reaction to this new gem I now have in the museum!
Tom - Still to this day your Valley Giant VG16 you made for my museum is my most favorite cam overall. Plywood lobes with Gorilla cam lobe design. I am so honored to have this cam in my museum which shows your master craftsman heart went into its creation and into all of the cam devices you create!
I hope that Tom and Erick can put aside who makes the best cam and will continue to create these amazing monster devices for all to admire and enjoy!
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