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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Aug 14, 2014 - 09:55am PT
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Micronut.
If your words help you, they help... It's first and foremost you they may help. Don't you see? ... or know?... Do your words help you?
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:05am PT
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Micronut: "Do I go up and help that sketchy meth-head guy at midnight in the hood or is there a likelihood he's a bad guy and I'll get mugged?"
You don't think Jesus will protect you? you are just trying to help a person in need. . .
I am glad that Jesus is there to help you be a good person, some people need that, plus the added feelings of superiority you get when you know that the a-hole that just got a promotion over you because he drinks with the boss but doesn't know shet or Jesus is going to burn in hell for ALL OF ETERNITY!!! Oh that is such a great comfort.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:08am PT
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The character of a Christian exemplifies love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self control.
That describes the character of a good person. If an atheist exhibits such character, do the gain entry into Heaven?
No, they do not. And therein lies the rub. Christianity, being a jealous God cult, is bigoted at its core. It is Us and Them - and so promotes Us and Them thinking.
"True" Christian? You see what I mean.
That's precisely why its so easy for Christians to demonize whole groups - like homosexuals, for example. The concept of live and let live without judgement escapes Christians, because their jealous and frankly psychopathic God is all about judgement.
The idea that, Hey Christian…you weren't invited to the gay wedding, it's really none of your business" is lost on Christians, because of one line out of a dusty, nonsensical book that EACH INDIVIDUAL CHRISTIAN CHOOSES to give them an excuse to hate in a very real and tangible way. And preventing someone from marrying the person they love is just that - it is an act of real hatred. It is cruelty.
But cruelty is a huge part of the game, isn't it? Eternal torture, anyone? Only the Abrahamic religions have that concept. Many Christians openly revel in the thought of their enemies burning forever. It's all about payback.
Frankly, the doctrine sickens me. And it is sick. "Love me or burn forever". If you were on a first date with someone who said that you'd be running for your car - as many ex Christians (oh, excuse me - the "marginal" members of the church") have already chosen to do.
The exclusive language used by the self processed super awesome "all in" Christians here is instructive here. Listen to yourselves. Where's the shame?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:13am PT
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I don't believe Christians, or any large group of Americans, should stay out of politics. The fewer the citizens involved in politics, the easier it is for the jackals - the parties, the PACs, the lobbyists etc to target and manipulate them - and levy unwanted policies on us.
I believe Christians should reform into a true, "Christ like" human rights movement true to the love-they-neighbor philosophy - per my previous post. Think of the power America would have if Christians actually respected and promoted egalitarian principles and human rights, per our Bill of Rights, rather than being what they are today - the last bastion of institutionalized bigotry and repression - and staunch enemies of the Bill of Rights, most particularly the separation of church and state and equal protection clauses.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:15am PT
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Tough crowd.
Seems to me, this should give you pause, doc. But then it doesn't. Right? Because you're "all in."
Think of the power America would have if Christians actually respected and promoted egalitarian principles and human rights...
And, if I might add, science and science edu, too.
But then, what would this do to its core ideology? Geez, talk about being between a rock and hard place.
Best strategy. Adapt. See the three Abrahamic religions for what they are in the context of an amazing history and move on.
Just as young people in the info age seem to be doing. Thank Apollo, Son of Zeus.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:16am PT
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They are humble. µnut
I offer an alternative to depression, anger, and emptiness. µnut
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:23am PT
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The real irony is that Christians have evolved to have the propensity for belief in myth and ascribe human-like consciousness to the inanimate universe (God) - which includes denying evolution, the very process responsible for the invention of their religion.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:23am PT
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Jstan
Yes, that's very strange, very strange... if you're not all in. Another word for being all into a religious ideology is blindness...
And still: I have no reason to believe that Micronut is anything else than a good man. He's not a blind man of violence... He's a blind man of pride, but also a blind man of empathy and compassion...
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:24am PT
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Micronut: "Do I go up and help that sketchy meth-head guy at midnight in the hood or is there a likelihood he's a bad guy and I'll get mugged?"
xenophobic strawman #666
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2014 - 10:24am PT
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I believe Christians should reform into a true, "Christ like" human rights movement true to the love-they-neighbor philosophy
I agree man.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:28am PT
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Another irony is the myth of monotheism. God, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, Satan, angels, the Virgin Mary, Demons…holy shiite muslims the place is lousy with supernatural beings. I know of no other religion that even comes close in terms of sheer population of ectoplasmic entities.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2014 - 10:29am PT
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fyi Tvash, I usually err on the side of helping the meth head. Last week I found myself south of the tracks in Fresno at about dusk and pulled over to check on a stinky guy that looked dead or passed out or immobile. Probably not smart but felt compelled to do so. He was just drunk and sleeping in his own yellow pool, but he said "thanks man, you got a light?". I said "No bro, it gives you bad breath and I don't carry matches in Fresno in the summer, might burn the whole town down...it like 112 degrees out here in this dry field!." We had a chuckle, he said thanks for checking on a brother and I went on my way. But it was a reminder to A) keep your head on a swivel downtown and b) some folks are glad when you just take a moment to check on them.
Nothing profund in that story I guess, just thought it timely.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:30am PT
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Anyway, step outside yourselves, Christians, and attempt to see yourselves as the rest of the world sees you. It's not pretty. If you love your wife and kids, pet your dog, and vote against gay marriage - guess what? Your'e still an as#@&%e.
Reform your religion from within. Drop the hate and stupidity. Sure, you'll wind up being indistinguishable from any good, old fashioned, gay lovin' Unitarian, but do you really need the Hollywood status?
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:31am PT
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Oh SH!T!!! I just looked at your picture Micronut, how old are you??? You look like a baby, no wonder you still cling to these rediculous beliefs, you have very little life experience!!!
How many openly gay people have you met? How well do you understand the basis of evolution (have you even taken a basic college level biology class???), have you visited or lived in another country (besides Canada)???
Get back to us in 10-20 years after you have a few ounces of real life experience, then we can talk.
Goddamn you really had me going there for a second.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:35am PT
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Thas cool. We're just using the kid to put out a platform to a Christian audience that stuck on this thing like flypaper. They need to really here this stuff - for their own good.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2014 - 10:36am PT
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Skitch:
Oh SH!T!!! I just looked at your picture Micronut, how old are you??? You look like a baby, no wonder you still cling to these rediculous beliefs, you have very little life experience!!!
How many openly gay people have you met? How well do you understand the basis of evolution (have you even taken a basic college level biology class???), have you visited or lived in another country (besides Canada)???
Get back to us in 10-20 years after you have a few ounces of real life experience, then we can talk.
I'm 41
Have two openly gay friends. And probablysix or so gay acquainences/neigbors and such. Just guessin' there. Why do you ask?
Have lived for a month in Kazakhstan where my son was born.
Three tours in Nepal.
Been to Russia a few times. Bangladesh, Hong Kong, Bangkok. Austria, Switzerland, Netherlands. Italy a few times.
My wife and kids lived in Europe for three months this summer for a semester abroad.
I have two doctorates in biology and am a surgeon for a living.
Just answering your questions there. Feels kinda weird giving you my resume but you asked.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:36am PT
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Regarding ironies, don't get me started. I stopped counting their number concerning Abrahamic super-religion and its beliefs and conduct years ago.
On another note, you all know because of the effectiveness of globalization and social media, those of us who are plugged into the internet world are going to have a birds eye view of, and/or front-row seats to, the Islamic "Reformation" that's set before us and even currently underway? Talk about a captive audience.
There's a depressing thought.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:37am PT
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"real christian"
What's up with the pecking order?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:40am PT
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So I am a strong advocate of freedom of religion - that said I think everyone here is missing the point.
I think that some of you (like myself) are Pastafarians, but certainly not all of you have seen the light. I welcome you to explore the one true god. All praise his noodly appendages.
Please come and check out the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and investigate it's thoughts on evolution, creationism and their teaching implications for public schools. Read about the open letter to the Kansas board of education
http://www.venganza.org
kev
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:46am PT
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A doctorate in biology who doesn't believe in evolution?
How does that even work?
Nevermind, I don't care. I'm just takin' the piss.
A real climber is someone who climbs. Are the teens I'll be mentoring this weekend 'real climbers'? Some of them get stuck and whine a bit. Is one of their 45 year old dads, also new to climbing, a 'real climber'? How about the two overweight teens in my group who are taking control of and learning to be more confident about their bodies through climbing? Not real climbers?
In 2 years some of these kids will be rock stars.
Is the Christian who has a drinking problem but votes to allow everyone to marry the person they love not a 'real Christian'?
I guess you can see where that type of thinking gets you.
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