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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:54pm PT
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As someone who HAS ranched (I'm retired from that now!), I can assure you that Cliven Bundy wasn't getting rich on his marginal operation.
Until recently cattle prices (realized by the ranchers) were abysmally low; a yearling steer would bring the rancher ~ $850.00, and a 6 month old calf would bring $600. In order to achieve these prices for a yearling, it meant winter feeding the animal hay and dietary supplements. It takes roughly 1.5 tons of good quality hay per animal, which costs $350.00. Add in veterinary expenses, hauling, and statistical losses to mortality, maintenance of a mother cow to have the calf, cost of artificial insemination or keeping a bull, and the "profits" were either non-existent or "negative."
A yearling steer needs to be raised on pasture or grass for ~ 4-5 months before going to a feedlot for 75-90 days, depending upon the grade of beef required (Prime takes longer than choice which takes longer than what you usually get at Vons, Safeway, etc.) Figure $500-$600 for this.
This results in a 1400 pound animal at slaughter. Figure 45% of the live animal as "edible portions." Price per pound, cut and boned: $2.30. About 25% of this will result in hamburger and the rest as steaks, roasts, and other premium cuts.
Contrast all this with the price for that T-bone steak. The feeders and processors make a TON of money, as do the supermarket chains and meat markets. The rancher gets fukked.
I did the "ranching thing" for 15 years, until my wife became terminally ill and I got old. It was a good life...as long as I had a job to support my cows.
So, yeah, I have some sympathy for Mr. Bundy, but question some of his decisions that landed him in the schitt.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
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Who said he was getting rich? He was grazing his cattle illegally. Not an entirely uncommon practice for ranchers. If you steal something and don't get rich selling it, does it mean you shouldn't be held responsible for the original crime?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 13, 2014 - 12:00am PT
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He stole something? What'd he steal?
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 13, 2014 - 12:11am PT
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Broke only reinforces what so many already know. Beef is one of the most wasteful food sources pound for pound of food and water fed vrs actually edible food rendered.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 13, 2014 - 12:43am PT
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Lots of questions here!
I know lots of ranchers, and in a way they're a lot like climbers. To those looking in from the outside, we as climbers seem pretty strange critters. They just can't understand why we "do it." Ditto the ranchers I've known; it's a very rewarding lifestyle in it's own way. There's the romantic view of maintaining the pioneering spirit, of being close to the land. Most of the ones I know aren't THAT motivated by money, just as long as they "get by." Add to that...change in lifestyle is very difficult, especially for someone in his 60s.
A lot of the problems we have these days are media induced. Anything for a story, and the truth gets lost along the way. The media also seems to have an agenda, which I believe is improper. Then we have knee-jerk liberals, and we have knee-jerk rednecks. Resulting in a slanderfest here on Super Topo.
I tried to stay away from this thread, but it kept getting closer and closer to my lifestyle and too much uninformed BS was flying around, so I began posting. But for now, I've said my piece, and going to bed.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 13, 2014 - 01:02am PT
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Actually beef is a great source of high quality protein, since it converts something we can't eat(grass) into something we can eat: beef. There's a lot of land out there that can be grazed and has very little other use than solar farms. My place at it's greatest was 1742 acres. I've since sold off over 1000 acres to pay my ex-wife's nursing home expenses, saving the taxpayer a bunch of money since she's not on Medicaid. I was able to run ~ 100 mother cows under normal conditions in the summer, but didn't have enough hay production to winter that many.
A few lucky tacos were able to sample my home grown hamburger at Facelift a couple years ago. They uniformly agreed that "Beef, it's what's for dinner."
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 13, 2014 - 01:16am PT
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You are right Chaz, he didn't really steal anything... just trespassed and vandalized public property.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 13, 2014 - 01:19am PT
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That put's him in the same boat as an illegal alien.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 13, 2014 - 01:26am PT
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^^^^
Maybe he can get welfare and free medical aid?
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:47am PT
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Don't worry guys. Joe Walsh is on scene so I'm sure this will all be wrapped up pretty quickly.
Dude, read the comments on your link! :-)
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:58am PT
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Devide and conquer, appeal to mythologies, prejudices and illusion.
I've seen a lot of that in Colorado too. The result is that the town where I grew up is nothing but a by pass and service outlet now for the 1% in Aspen and Vail, while the elderly have to move 200 miles away because they can't afford to live there anymore.
When I question why the rickety bridge can't be replaced with a bypass that would save the town from all the traffic and smog, or why there can't be zoning laws to prevent people building outrageously large and garish clashing buildings next to each other, or why second, third, and fourth homes can't be taxed at a higher rate so the locals don't pay for all the new facilities built for the 50 week a year empty houses, all I get is some rhetoric about individualism and free enterprise.
At least a few of the richer ranchers there have deeded their lands to the Nature Conservancy so that a few green spaces will be preserved. Their children write nostalgic books like "The Last Cowboys of the Roaring Fork Valley" which features friends and relatives of mine, while a way of life dies to rich outsiders and a beautiful valley becomes a 40 mile long subdivision. That's progress in the new West I guess.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:00am PT
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Can someone tell me when the definition of the word "patriot" changed to "someone who doesn't want to pay taxes." ?
Since the original Bosten Tea Party maybe?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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^^^^^
+ 10000!
Maybe when the Bush Administration rammed through the highly intrusive "Patriot Act?" Violates so many of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights, that it boggles the mind. When "our" government waterboards people and suspends the Writ of Habeas Corpus? Maybe when the Obama Administration never closed Guantanamo as claimed in campaign promises? Maybe when we're still in Afghanistan because of the Opium deals?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:15am PT
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Well now that you mention it Bruce, I have to admit that I couldn't wait to get away from those cowboys and see the world. Only in retrospect could I appreciate them. As for self preservation, my life has always been about adventure, not financial progress. If I had been into self preservation, I would have stayed at home, gone to law school and worked for the 1%.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:55am PT
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We're all pussies ompared to our ancestors, particularly those who founded the Old West.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:59am PT
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Just haul the tax cheat to court. When his domestic terrorist posse show lock them up.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 13, 2014 - 11:01am PT
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As true today as 2000 years ago in Rome; when a Senator was killed, or some other unexplained action took place, the question was "Que Bene?"
Who benefits?! The real reasons can usually be found by a simple "follow the money." Based on these recent revelations, seems that Harry Reid may have his dick in the Cuisinart?
As for the money involved, the ~ 350 cattle "impounded" (euthanized) by the BLM have an approximate market value of $560,000. That's by my calculation, based on current market prices for mature mother cows of $1,600 each. There was undoubtedly a loss of all the calves who ran off to hide, as well...figure 300 of them at todays market value of $800 each, or another $240,000. There are some high powered law firms already rubbing their hands together in anticipation of lawsuits against the BLM (in the United States Court of Claims) for this loss to the Bundys, and punitive damages as well. Not to mention possible charges of Assault and Battery against specific BLM Rangers for their tazing of Bundy's son, and pushing a 57 year old female cancer survivor to the ground.
Yeah, these cases wouldn't go anywhere in U.S. District Court, but in the Court of Claims, they will.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 13, 2014 - 11:03am PT
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Chuff? Do you understand what "mitigation" means?
In the case of solar installations where there would be some minor, yet unavoidable impacts to tortoise (habitat mostly, rather than actual animals as projects in DT habitat will have biologists walk transects and identify active burrows prior to starting any construction), mitigation likely means relocation of animals to suitable habitat, possible enhancement of that habitat through vegetation, and possibly building tortoise fence adjacent to roadways.
What you posted there makes ZERO indication that the land in question is for placing solar farms, it indicates it would be used to offset some of the impact from placing those solar installations elsewhere. Got it! NICE!
I know this because I once planned that mitigation and walked those transects as a biological monitor for Caltrans. If you look at the bottom of the right-of-way fences along many stretches of the 15 or 40 that go through designated DT habitat, the bottom strand of the 3-wire to the ground has (or will have after the next repaving/resurfacing) 1-inch wire mesh to keep DTs out of the road.
Road kill and, somewhat surprising to most, ravens, are a couple of the primary killers.
To attempt vegetation establishment and enhancement in an area where it will be decimated by cattle clearly would not work. Relocating tortoise to new sites also won't work if there is not sufficient veg, and fences that either are incompatible with cattle being able to graze or are low enough for cattle to cross (which are then trampled by the cattle and become useless for keeping the DTs in a specific locale)
It's like you folks are stupid on purpose. NICE! Got it, RICK. May I suggest reading taking a comprehension course?
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 13, 2014 - 11:17am PT
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Black kid in a hoody gets shot buying Skiddles, the right wing extremist celebrate. Some old white dude flaunting the law claims tyranny against the BLM, he's a hero. Wingnuts.
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