Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
Unfortunately I have all too few degrees of separation from gill man.
And all too many from Angelina Joli!
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
Oooh la la!
Men with thin lips should be prohibited from even thinking about kissing her, let alone actually doing it, for that would be to squander the resource that she is.
[A smooch-o-licious-lipped lady once taught me that truism in a real life application]
|
|
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
Why in the 7 hells would Angelina get tattoos?
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
Tattoos are HOT! In fact, I even have a theory about girls with tattoos....
Voice of John Cleese as Anne Elk: "Ahem, my theory...."
|
|
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
Yeah but you are an AIDS climber, and so by definition have no taste or discretion.
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
I have pretty good taste, actually. I can tell you lots about how to choose a good California Big Wall Cab for under six bucks, and show you how to open it properly on your portaledge with all correct wine snobbery.
It's the discretion part I sometimes have problems with....
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
OK... I'll add my 2 cents here, not that it matters, as I agree, completely with the gist of Werner's last post - nothing will change for some, no matter what.
There are NO bathook holes on the first pitch. There are NONE on the 2nd pitch. Not looking up from the ground, and not looking from 1 foot away, while on the slab itself. There also were no bathook holes I could see while at the top of pitch two, looking up at the route with a 100-400 Canon L lens. This, on a 1.6 crop is effectively a 640mm lens. And, now that I think of it, I was also using a 2x teleconvertor, which would bring us to 1280mm. Pretty much a low-powered telescope, at that point.
This whole "Thousand Bolts to Horse Chutes" stuff is just crap. The bolts/rivets on the route are spaced 25-35' apart. I don't see this route as over-bolted by either today's standards or by yesterday's. Seriously, you can figure this all out from the base. You can see the bolt/rivet placement. If you have poor eyesight or feel you need to see higher, then bring some binocs. Surely, the folks thrashing Richard and Mark must have had these, as I'm pretty sure most FAist or potential FAists had them to search out possible lines.
But then, we all know that the bolt/rivet count isn't what any of this was about, to begin with.
I could really care less about the "challenge", itself. I've talked to Mark and Richard, at length about this whole thing and have expressed, long ago, that I feel there are some people who's opinions will never be changed, no matter what. I've expressed that I feel they have the bulk of what they seek, in that the community, as a whole, feels they were slighted in a major way. Quite a number of people took Ammon's and Pete's experiences up there to be a pretty good show of what the route was made of. Most people took their word as good, that the route is not over-bolted, nor that there were any bathook holes on either of the crux pitches (1&2).
Others chose to ignore Pete, and rehash a bunch of old, not-related to climbing crap to discount his word. They THEN tried to paint Ammon in a bad/incompetent light to reinforce their opinions (of themselves, more than anything). Going so far as to tell Ammon to "Sack up". Really laughable, if you ask me.
I'm not sure what the so-called challenge would accomplish. I'm really not sure what Mark or Richard would have to prove to anyone at this point. They're both pretty proud of their accomplishments, to date. They are both pretty satisfied in their ability to climb hard aid. I think most people agree that they've been really forthright in their endeavors to explain to people *exactly* what they did on this route. More than anything, I'm certain they both see themselves as good men who both have accomplishments far superior to any stupid route on some silly rock in Yosemite. Certainly, far superior to anything that a group of guys in their 20's thought was important at the time.
Regardless, it's simply a matter of time before the route sees a repeat. It won't matter, however. It won't change anything. No matter who it is that repeats the route. No matter how fast/slow they do it, no matter if there is a news crew in-tow with professional cameras recording every inch of the way. The same players will remain entrenched on both sides of the front, refusing to budge. Only when people move past this whole affair, personally & internally, will this whole thing fade to where it belongs.
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
I've already dealt with you, your name calling and baseless threats in the other thread, tough guy. Laid it out really simple for you, as I could see your problems with comprehension. Try hooked on phonics if it was too fast/confusing for you. Since you couldn't sack up and answer to it there, maybe it's you who should piss off. Just a bag of hot air.
Whatever though, new year and all. I'm not going to waste my time with you or this thread anymore, Dimitri. As far as I'm concerned, you can rot in your own personal hell. Have fun.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
|
|
The tag line for the movie could be "Big Walls. Bigger Egos!" Not that there is anything wrong with having a big ego.
|
|
Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
|
|
You just gotta love the whole concept of the shootout at the El Cap Corral. Isn't Jolly Roger sort of a hardman trade route these days? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have Mark solo Turning Point (FA Grossman solo) and Steve could have a partner on WoS since it was put up that way? Not that it serves any point aside from some made-for-tv drama, though come to think of it there could be some profit for those willing to wager on the outcome. Werner could hold the bets, isn't he the most unimpeachable and tight lipped of this whole motley crew? Mimi and Graniteclimber could both lob water balloons at their respective enemies for a little American Gladiator stylee.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
DIE THREAD DIE!!!
ok, well maybe it won't ever go away-
so lemme get caught up w/ everything-
help me get all this straight:
meaty is a rope crapper
randy is a liar
grossman is a chickensh#t
duece has had it w/ all of this
werner thinks we are all foolish
pedro wants all the men on this site to know that he too has luscious DSL, and also that his fellow christian climbers are righteous (or aat least as much so as he is...?)
radical wants a 3rd hand piece of ass twice removed
lois of course, has another long winded opinion (w/ no foundation whatsoever)
judy is quitting the CHP to get the SA (if only someone will lend him a chisel and some hooks)
mimi was in on it from the start, is somehow to blame for everything, and may in fact be a man, except that werner dated her in high school
none of these people that you never heard of before was in any way encouraged by the principals to bump this thread or argue any particular point there in
oh yeah, and btw, richard and mark have now been publicly declared to have been exonerated, except for the fact that-
1) despite being willing to stand there for hours, high-up in their aiders, on sketchy hooks, and frequently taking huge slabby whippers, still they couldn't hook through certain sections and had to chisel, but rather than drill a hole that another climber could find and use (but would further inflate the 'hole count'), they only just chiseled a little ("so you really can't tell even if you look"), and so it stands to reason that nobody can or will follow WoS unless they too are willing to regularly reach for some sort of chisel, which may be just as much of a disincentive as any other single factor to all the world's other aid climbers (who have, IMO, collectively passed judgement upon WoS by not repeating it in all these years). whether that is because of the need to enhance hook placements, the choice of a featureless and slabby line void of all natural protection, the difficulty of the climbing itself, the likelyhood of long falls that are generally not "safe" (like falls on overhanging routes often are), the time (apparently) required for an ascent, or the history associated w/ the route, it doesn't really matter. the route speaks for itself, and it does not get climbed; we can banter forever, but that is the truth, that is what remains.
[ seriously- there are plenty of climbers out there who are into scary runout climbing, and most of them do not participate on this forum or any other. this route obviously does not appeal to them. period. ]
2) for all the glory that these guys give to GOD, they are full of PRIDE. just as they were when the rolled into YV back in the day and decided they would go do the hardest route on the planet before getting to know anyone, or before getting a taste of the routes already there and learning what makes a good big wall route a good big wall route. (what if every big wall route that went up was put up by 1st time big wall climbers? sheesh, and seriously, WHO WOULD DO THAT, then or now, and why? i'll tell you who, climbers w/ PRIDE, or who have a need to prove something.) and, as nice as they often are, as competent as they may have been, as unfortunate as it was that they were treated poo(r)-ly, most of their posts here are also full of PRIDE.
where is the introspection?
what has all this taught them, other than what it feels like to be persecuted?
(kinda like, eh-hem? hmmm...)
perhaps i missed it in all of the billions of posts across ump-teen PoS WoS threads, but where was the post where they talked about what they could have done differently? or about how they could have made a greater effort to embrace the community? if they could learn how to micro-hook unchiseled el cap granite by aid-bouldering, why couldn't they have gone aid bouldering w/ the "locals"? maybe they are understandably bitter from being "victimized" and whatnot, but i don't see (again, maybe i missed it?) where they ever have looked back and publicly asked themselves if they could have possibly done anything differently and ended up w/ a different result, different memories, and a different legacy. i think if i had seen that, i would end up feeling fifferently about all of this, but i have not seen anything like that, just finger-pointing and "woe is me" or "you can't even do my route" rants, seperated by some warm comraderie w/ those who agree w/ them or support them.
sorry if that sounds mean, i even kinda feel mean writing it, but i am just being honest about what i think of all of this.
i'll accept that ya'll are/were fine climbers w/ huge balls. so what? i have met plenty of those, and there are far more that i have never met. you put up a line right by the road, right there on el cap, that nobody has ever actually gone back and repeated, and in your minds (or at least in your posts on ST that i recall), you are in no way responsible for that legacy. if people have bailed, they just were not your equal, simple as that. if people have looked at your route but climbed elsewhere, they were clearly too afraid of your bold climb. if steeper climbs on el cap that employ similar hole counts to connect features see regular traffic, that does not not reflect upon what you left behind for others to follow, it simply means that others have tainted your legacy and that of WoS by smearing you unfairly.
in your narrative, on your 1st attempt ever (and after climbing in a quarry and doing some aid-bouldering for practice), you were the best, the baddest, and the boldest of all time. well i'd sure like to buy a bottle of that, if you ever decide to sell it.
i don't know what more there is to say, as everyone (including YOU) is pretty well dug in.
so from a post above:
"i really don't see why this debate needs to continue."
Concur. What do you say we "agree to disagree" and leave it at that?
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
Brokeback Captain - Two Boys turn into Men as they nail and drill virgin rock.
|
|
Da_Dweeb
climber
|
|
i am just being honest about what i think of all of this.
Well, well. I guess it's true what they say about opinions being like as#@&%es, Matt. Everybody has one, and they all stink. Are you done waving yours around, now?
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
|
|
Is Winds of Change the same thing as Wings of Steel?
If I rap the lower pitches of WOS, can I comment about how badass the route is?
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
dweeb- if these threads are not about people's opinions, what are they about?
SINCE EVERY POST YOU HAVE EVER MADE has been in 2 WoS threads, i guess we can assume you'd like it if they were just about YOUR opinion? thanks, but no thanks.
meat- you're a crapper, but randy is a liar (lying about you crapping), so you see how there is balance? chill the f*#k out man. at least you didn't get called a chickenshit! let's hope grossman appreciates sarcasm more than you do...
EDIT
(between this post and the next, there lies a significant sarchasm)
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
Well, Matt, that's quite a steaming pile you've laid on the thread. Sort of a virtual recreation of an earlier miscreation. What does sashaying with the locals or doing previous routes have to do with putting up FA's? Nothing whatsoever in my book. What big walls did the first big wall climbers climb before they did their first big wall? And who did they sashay with prior to doing it?
At least when you crap or post it isn't ballslessly anonymous like the rope deed or "meaty's" pithy posts.
|
|
Da_Dweeb
climber
|
|
Oh, I don't disagree with you for a moment, Matt. Every post I've made here is based on my own opinion. Unlike you though, I don't dress up my spout as some kind of plead for restraint and closure on the part of everybody else. You of all people want to talk about hypocrisy?! This thread WAS dying until you bumped it with your supposed plead that we drop the issue. On your part this was nothing more than a sorry attempt to give us your final spew dressed up as a request for us to let it go. Don't for a damn moment pretend it's anything otherwise. You DON'T know Mark. You DON'T know Richard. You DON'T know what the hell you're talking about. You of all people should be shutting up and letting go right now. It's surprising that you can't, given that you of all people involved have no vested interest in this entire matter. Except... perhaps... pride?
Hm.
Meaty - Don't hold back, tell us what you REALLY think.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
And who you really are...
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
What is the story of the woman getting sucker punched?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!