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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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R wedgee? what?
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beaner
Social climber
Maine
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We're going to have another referendum on banning the current practice hunting bears with dogs or over bait here in Maine. The ban failed with a 47-53 vote in 2004. Of course it's portrayed by the baiters as "people from away" trying to "change our way of life". Here in Maine the rednecks really resent people from the southern part of the state and the coast, many of which they denigrate for not being "native". I will admit I occasionally bash the "summer people" that have driven real estate prices up here on the coast for us year-rounder non-trust-fund people (although I try not to complain too much when I can sit at my desk at work and literally see a National Park outside my window; I see the appeal of this place), but I don't really care about bear hunting.
We have a camp in an unpopulated area (10 miles or so from the nearest public road, accessible by a network of private logging roads that crisscross the unorganized territory of Maine), and I know bear hunting is important to the livelihood of a few of the people trying to make it year round near there, but I find baiting distasteful. On the way to camp you drive down a state highway that, for the east coast, is desolate. There is a hunting lodge in the middle of no where that offers guided bear hunts, and during hunting season the driveway is full of vehicles from Massachusetts. For some reason, people think that driving up into the wilderness and being lead to a tree stand that has been baited for weeks by a local guide and shooting a bear looking for another free handout is an adventure. Posing for their hero picture with the dead animal is probably the ultimate goal; what to do with the meat is an afterthought I suppose.
I stumbled upon one of these active bait sites while walking through the woods near camp one day. I rarely see bears when I'm out and about; there is a lot of woods here and they are quite timid. But I did not feel at all comfortable sticking around the bait site for long. The food was gone for the day, but there were lots of signs of a lot of bear activity. The ground was deeply trampled and eroded around the bait bucket, which was chained to a nearby tree.
Some people seem to think that the ban will pass this time. Most of the people I know, many native Mainiacs from the "real Maine", find hunting over bait and trapping distasteful. I think hunting with dogs is slightly more palatable to some people. Although I am not really close to many avid hunters, so I suspect many deer/bird hunters will support their bear hunter kin (who are relatively small portion of the hunting community here).
It will be interesting. Of course the hunters try to scare non-hunters with the claim we will be overrun with bear if the ban is enacted. I've read that the estimated population here has grown from around 23,000 bears to 30,000 over the last 10 years; yet my encounters are no more frequent. Maine has a sophisticated team of wildlife biologists and it is certain that if the ban passes the hunting success rate will plummet, which will basically nullify their current bear management plan. Of course the department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife receives a portion of its funding from the sale of hunting licenses, so I'm sure there is pressure on the biologists to support these hunting practices as part of a management plan.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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I'm just not convinced that raising pigs in small pens and killing them in an industrial killing machine is a better thing like Dingbat apparently does.
But I do get my Bacon from the fridge, so I'm not going to go all whack about it on the internet.
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beaner
Social climber
Maine
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Dingus, Baxter is a special place. Has some climbing too: http://brianirwinmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Beast-of-the-East.pdf They have really relaxed the winter red tape, but the prohibition on backcountry camping makes developing routes in the remote North Basin difficult.
The coast is like a whole other state. Too bad you didn't experience that too. No doubt in your youth you could have had a more authentic experience with thick downeast accents and real working finishing towns. You still get a taste, but watered down by tourists and wealthy summer people.
And yes, it can be cold. A few weeks ago a town in northern Maine (a good 4 hour drive north from me) had a high of -45 for the day. After weeks of temps that were below zero to the single digits it warmed up to the 20s for a few days and then shot to the 50s for one day yesterday before dropping back into freezing.
RE factory farmed pigs: this is why all of my pork was raised humanely on a small local farm by someone I know. With room to forage and act like a pig. Humanely dispatched by the farmer with a rifle before being trucked down the road to a local butcher. I have no problem with people that hunt deer and moose for food. This includes many of my friends, neighbors, and familly. I do have a problem with baited bear hunts, which are usually conducted for out of state tourists for fun.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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I,ve got an idea.
Those of you who think hunting with dogs is easy, go follow somebody on a couple hunts.
Bet you won,t.
Then come report back about your experience, you know, whether it lived up to your expectations.
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Yall get amped about this stuff. I should probably avoid mentioning that I hunt to people, lest I be judged harshly!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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FYI
with those old black powder cartridges the first number is the bore and the second is the powder charge, so a 25-35 is a .25 calibre round propelled by 35 grains of powder.
Willie Dixon made his famous 1538 yard shot at the second Battle of Adobe Walls with a 50-90 in 1874.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Not William James, but thanks for Spoonful, Hoochie Coochie Man, and I Just Wanna Make Love To You.
The Medal Of Honor awardee's great grandnephew, Doug Dixon, lives just up the road a few miles from the Kolob Fingers.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/articles/prey-maimed-for-an-easy-hunt
Wednesday, January 8, 2014
Two men, including a big game outfitter from Mack, organized illegal hunts of mountain lions and bobcats over three years near the Colorado-Utah line and would maim animals to make hunts easier, the U.S. Attorney’s Office said Wednesday.
Christopher Loncarich, 55, of Mack, and Nicholaus Rodgers, 30, of Medford, Ore., were charged Tuesday in a 17-count indictment with conspiracy to violate to the Lacey Act, interstate felony transportation and sale of unlawfully taken wildlife, and felony creation of false records concerning wildlife sold in interstate commerce.
The U.S. Attorney’s Office, which announced the charges in a press release, alleged a scheme between the men between 2007 and 2010 operating in western Colorado on the Utah border.
Loncarich outfits and guides hunts for mountain lions and bobcats in the Bookcliffs range.
Authorities allege Loncarich and his assistants trapped the cats in cages prior to hunts, then released them when their clients were nearby. Loncarich, Rodgers and others would stay in touch via radio to ensure their clients were taken to the location of the release.
Loncarich and others would sometimes shoot cats in the paws or legs, or attach leghold traps, toward making the hunts easier, the U.S. Attorney’s Office said.
Many of the paying hunters did not have proper licenses to hunt the animals, which were brought back to Colorado after kills. Records were allegedly falsified to Colorado wildlife authorities, who approved transporting the cats to the hunters’ home states.
To date, four assistant hunting guides have pleaded guilty in connection with the scheme, federal prosecutors said.
Marvin Ellis, of Grand Junction, was ordered last June by U.S. District Judge Philip Brimmer to serve three years probation and pay a $3,000 fine stemming from his guilty plea to conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act. As a condition of probation, Brimmer prohibited Ellis from any “hunting activities/hunting groups,” while ordering him not to kill any animals while on probation.
The U.S. Attorney’s Office on Wednesday did not release a copy of the grand jury indictment in the investigation. It wasn’t immediately clear if Loncarich or Rodgers were in custody, or free on bond.
Attempts to reach Loncarich at his Mack home were unsuccessful.
Ron Velarde, Northwest Regional Manager for Colorado Parks and Wildlife, said the case was among the worst he’s seen over a four-decade career.
“When people go outside of established laws, they jeopardize wildlife populations but more importantly the public trust in hunting to be part of the responsible management of wildlife,” Velarde said in a release.
The case was investigated by U.S. Fish and Wildlife, Colorado Parks and Wildlife and the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources.
http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/articles/hunter-used-poison-for-20-years-shameful-judge-say
One of four South Carolina men who used poison arrows to hunt deer, elk and bears told an investigator he’s been using the illegal equipment in Mesa County for at least 20 years, taking
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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I think that vaginas everywhere are offended by that comparison Stinkeye.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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epithets about vaginas imply that you like dick. jes sayin'.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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^winding up for the whiff?^
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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So here in the Santa Cruz mtns, the Bay Area Puma Project hunts Felis Concolor with dogs. When they've got him/her treed they move the dogs back and shoot it with a tranquilizer dart. Poor ole Felis falls out of the tree, gets a radio collar, has his teeth checked, gets measured, has to give up some blood and a hair sample.
Then everyone moves WAAY back with the dogs. As the lion awakes he snarls and bares his teeth at the dogs and then totters away the other direction into the forest.
At least that's how it has played out so far.
http://www.bapp.org/field-activities
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Without question, hunting season is my favorite time of the year. There's no shortage of "hunters" out shooting one another, themselves, and pretty much anything else that either moves or doesn't.
My all time favorite was the big brave hunter in some form of tree stand so he could kill Bambi. He didn't set it up properly and it collapsed on him and fell to the ground and broke his leg. Since he was alone, nobody came to help immediately. Meanwhile he's lying there and a bear came along and tore the sh#t out of him! He survived, but it wasn't pretty.
Go nature!
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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What part of "the prey walks away" don't you understand?
BAPP don't use any traps or snares. They did at first and then figured out the dogs were much more humane because the lion can easily run up a tree and isn't injured.
That's my point exactly. Dogs have a limited place in the humane treatment of wild animals.
I've got no quarrel with shooting game for food as long as it's consumed.
But using dogs to hunt is wrong in my mind.
As for needing dogs to hunt the fearsome nuisance boar. We had a wild boar infestation a few years ago. Damned Cal F&G wouldn't let us hunt 'em! Meddlesome bureaucrats.
So we hired a licensed trapper, built a dozen iron traps and placed them in strategic locations. Over a course of about 8 years, nearly all the boars were trapped, killed and the meat went to charity. The boars are now so scarce they're not a problem. I suspect Felis Concolor, coyotes and bobcats keep them in check. I'll bet piglets are mighty tasty.
Hunters with dogs wouldn't have been nearly as thorough chasing the boar all over the wilderness.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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How does one hunt birds without a dog, High Traverse?
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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bipedal locomotion is pretty effective
speaking of Otis Rush and bloodlust
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ron, remember this sh#t, you are Willy F*#king Wonka out there. You make the chocolate and it is your factory. Will you be Otis or will you be Jesus? Remember the maimed animals, the poisoned wild things, and remember that the same choice is theirs as well. Think about that next time you are out there, the eyes upon your back. Poison begets poison.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Chaz
By waiting. With bird calls. With patience. And then with walking. Yeah, Tom takes a dog when he's hunting water fowl. To retrieve the dead birds. He doesn't take a dog to flush land birds. He walks and he's in his late 70s. His dad used dogs to flush game and to tree bears. Tom used to. Hasn't in years and yes, his last bear he got without a dog.
Have you ever hunted turkey? With a dog?
Tell us about it.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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I was trying to think of a bird that can be hunted without a dog, and turkey was all I could think of, too. I doubt you would even see a turkey if your dog was around.
Everything else requires a dog to find it or retrieve it, or both.
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