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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 16, 2011 - 04:07pm PT
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Loud pipes are ghey.
They do nothing to "protect" riders from other vehicles.
Anyone that thinks along these lines needs to give up bikes and get back in thier car, where they are "safe".
Car drivers (I'm sure as sh#t not going to call them motorcyclists) that ride a motorcycle and use the logic that "loud pipes save lives" only harm those of us that ride everyday.
Seriously.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Jun 16, 2011 - 04:19pm PT
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Apogee makes a good point: Selfish
But Anastasia makes a good point: Safety
I'm for stuff that helps humans become more considerate and intelligent. Less stupid. (whatever that might be)
People riding loud bikes, blasting music inside cars, have no clue about how to build a campfire and smoke-out the whole valley, loudmouth drunks that equate camping with anarchy. This is sh.i.t we gotta work on.
I love Harleys (but don't own one, yet). I'd like to get one with noise-off, noise-on switch.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 16, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
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Me and Dad on his Harley. He like the quiet 'glaspacked' exhausts on his Harleys. I remember his bikes were all quiet and fast.
He'd ride L.A. to Dallas and back on a long weekend and make it to work Monday morning. Just to have dinner with his mom.
He was the real deal.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 16, 2011 - 04:36pm PT
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In terms of safety, by far the most strategy is probably for motorcyclists to drive very defensively, and wear bright colours and reflectors.
If there's an objective scientific or engineering study that suggests let alone shows that a motorcycle with a loud exhaust is in any way safer because it has a loud exhaust, no one has posted it here.
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apogee
climber
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Jun 16, 2011 - 04:48pm PT
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Loud pipes aren't a real safety issue
by Star-Tribune Editorial Board
Casper Wymoming Star Tribune - Online//
October 9, 2008
The Casper City Council unnecessarily backed down from its discussion of a proposed noise ordinance Tuesday night when motorcyclists showed up to protest.
Complaints about loud motorcycles from residents fed up with the noise prompted the proposal. But all it took for the council to table the issue was hearing local motorcyclists make the oft-repeated -- but bogus -- claim that "loud pipes save lives."
No, they don't. Loud pipes are a public nuisance, and the idea that they improve safety for bikers is a myth. Motorcycles don't come from the factory with loud pipes. They are altered by riders because they increase the noise.
One national study found that 77 percent of all motorcycle accident hazards come from in front of the motorcycle, while only 3 percent come from behind. But the after-market pipes direct the sound backwards, so the only time loud pipes draw attention to a motorcycle in traffic is when the bike is facing away from the motorist. How does that make the rider safer?
Pat Hahn of the Motorcycle Safety Center in Minnesota said, "In light of the negative effect that loud pipes have on motorcyclists' image, I simply can't buy the 'loud pipes save lives' argument. It's especially hollow coming from someone who disregards traffic laws, doesn't use a riding strategy, has never taken rider training, doesn't wear a helmet, or doesn't wear protective gear.
"Do all these things as a rule, because you're honestly trying to reduce your risks, and the argument might hold water ... The crux of it is that, until you've covered absolutely every other base, that worn-out battle cry is just a way to rationalize your flagrant self-indulgence."
In a policy statement, the American Motorcyclist Association says it believes that "few other factors contribute more to misunderstanding and prejudice against the motorcycling community than excessively noisy motorcycles." Some communities have chosen to ban motorcycles in certain areas because of the noise, which has led to another saying: "Loud pipes lose rights."
http://www.noisefree.org/newsroom/noise-display.php?id=164
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apogee
climber
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Jun 16, 2011 - 04:57pm PT
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Harley-Davidson Tries To Quiet Motorcycle Noise - Loud Pipes' Cost
From the February, 2009 issue of Motorcycle Cruiser
By Art Friedman
(Excerpts)
In a message entitled "Something We Never Want to Lose" on his company's website, Harley-Davidson Motor Company President and CEO Jim McCaslin tackles the issue of motorcycle noise and the increasing backlash motorcycling is experiencing as the result of loud pipes. Citing a four-fold increase in negative media coverage during the last decade, bans on motorcycles in some communities, attempts to curtail major motorcycle events, anti-tamper legislation, and other limitations of freedom for motorcyclists as the result of complaints about loud pipes...
This is the second stage of Harley-Davidson's campaign against loud exhaust pipes....
Industry concern over the problem of loud exhaust pipes is nothing new. The American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) has long warned riders that attitudes shaped by complaints about loud pipes frequently compromise the AMA's efforts to battle anti-motorcycling legislation and regulation.
Changing to an aftermarket exhaust system has become almost a knee-jerk reaction for many cruiser buyers. However, unless labeled as meeting federal and state standards, all of these exhaust systems are illegal and virtually all are illegally loud.
...And many who modify their bikes' exhaust systems simply want the noise, often for vanity's sake. Some motorcyclists profess to believe that "loud pipes save lives," although research tends to contradict that popular axiom. (Few of those who say they want exhaust noise for safety's sake use other means--such as brightly colored apparel--which have been proven effective.)
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/0602_crup_harley_davidson_motorcycle_noise/index.html
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 16, 2011 - 05:00pm PT
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The question is whether in fact the drivers actually hear, and respond in a way that makes the situation safer for everyone. Seems doubtful.
Again, in terms of risk management, there are far more effective (and less obnoxious) things that motorcycle riders can do.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 16, 2011 - 05:28pm PT
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I just dont see what the problem is with good old paying attention (on both parts) and being mindful of blind spots, as in knowing when youre in one (on both parts). Lanesplitting still blows my mind, for all the crap thats not legal in CA, I just dont get it. Just because it legal doesnt mean traffic conditions still cant make it a bad idea. NV has legal brothels, hosts the one of the west coasts largest bike fests and lanesplitting isnt legal.
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apogee
climber
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Jun 16, 2011 - 06:08pm PT
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The Hurt Report
The Hurt Report was a motorcycle safety study conducted in the United States, initiated in 1976 and published in 1981.[1] The report is named after its primary author, Professor Harry Hurt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurt_Report
Noted motorcycle journalist David L. Hough described the Hurt Report "the most comprehensive motorcycle safety study of the 20th century."[2]
The "Hurt Study"
Summary
Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/Hurt-study-summary.htm
(excerpt)
13. Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps (on in daylight) and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets.
17. Conspicuity of the motorcycle is most critical for the frontal surfaces of the motorcycle and rider.
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apogee
climber
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Jun 16, 2011 - 06:11pm PT
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Motorcycle rider conspicuity and crash related injury: case-control study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387473/
Results Crash related injuries occurred mainly in urban zones with 50 km/h speed limit (66%), during the day (63%), and in fine weather (72%). After adjustment for potential confounders, drivers wearing any reflective or fluorescent clothing had a 37% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.63, 95% confidence interval 0.42 to 0.94) than other drivers. Compared with wearing a black helmet, use of a white helmet was associated with a 24% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.76, 0.57 to 0.99). Self reported light coloured helmet versus dark coloured helmet was associated with a 19% lower risk. Three quarters of motorcycle riders had their headlight turned on during the day, and this was associated with a 27% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.73, 0.53 to 1.00). No association occurred between risk and the frontal colour of drivers' clothing or motorcycle. If these odds ratios are unconfounded, the population attributable risks are 33% for wearing no reflective or fluorescent clothing, 18% for a non-white helmet, 11% for a dark coloured helmet, and 7% for no daytime headlight operation.
Conclusions Low conspicuity may increase the risk of motorcycle crash related injury. Increasing the use of reflective or fluorescent clothing, white or light coloured helmets, and daytime headlights are simple, cheap interventions that could considerably reduce motorcycle crash related injury and death.
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apogee
climber
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Jun 16, 2011 - 06:15pm PT
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The Deadly Dozen: 12 Motorcycle Safety Myths and Misconceptions
Read more: http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/dangerous_motorcycle_safety_myths/index.html#ixzz1PTk29NDx
Myth 2: Loud Pipes Save Lives
Yeah, there are a few situations—like where you are right next to a driver with his window down who is about the to change lanes—where full-time noise-makers might help a driver notice you, but all that noise directed rearward doesn't do much in the most common and much more dangerous conflict where a car turns in front of you. Maybe it's the fatigue caused by the noise, maybe it's the attitudes of riders who insist on making annoying noise, or perhaps loud bikes annoy enough drivers to make them aggressive. Whatever the reason, the research shows that bikes with modified exhaust systems crash more frequently than those with stock pipes. If you really want to save lives, turn to a loud jacket or a bright helmet color, which have been proven to do the job. Or install a louder horn. Otherwise, just shut up.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 16, 2011 - 06:20pm PT
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Maybe we should stop bagging on drivers of loud motorcycles, fun though it is, and despite the nuisance they cause in parks. The world needs organ donors, after all.
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Jun 16, 2011 - 06:31pm PT
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Well, there was a plan to create a parking lot outside the park and force people into using mass transportation to cut down on traffic, have less pollution, create safer travel conditions, and have more crowd control etc.
That would solve a whole lot of problems.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 16, 2011 - 06:33pm PT
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buses, light rail system?
what was in the plan?
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Jun 16, 2011 - 06:35pm PT
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They wanted to create a light rail system, heard of a bus proposal too. I wonder what ever happened to those ideas? I thought it was great. It would force people to carry less into the park, less trash, might even make the tourons buy more, etc. We climbers can do fine with carrying stuff in. We are at least good that way.
AFS
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apogee
climber
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Jun 16, 2011 - 06:41pm PT
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Honestly, I've been trying to find any kind of study that demonstrates specifically that loud pipes decrease accidents/injuries- can't find even one. On the flip side, there aren't any studies that demonstrate that loud pipes are not helpful, either.
That's kind of a weak argument in my book, which leaves the question open to endless anecdotes, but there are some who hold that view. The most definitive study on motorcycle safety was the 'Hurt Report', which was a number of years ago, and while it did conclude that conspicuity of the rider/bike was important, it didn't specifically examine the loudness of the bike.
I'll give you that (street) motorcycle riding is dicey due to the unpredictable nature of car drivers- no argument there. I just can't accept that my life (and hundreds of others) should be negatively impacted due to the risk management strategy that someone else chooses to mitigate the inherent risks of motorcycle riding.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Jun 16, 2011 - 07:02pm PT
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Just enforce the existing laws! Write tickets! If it costs money people will stop doing it.
Any noise level that causes you to raise your voice to be heard is doing damage to your ears and the people around you. Drive in a car at speed with the window down all the time? Yes, it is doing damage and is the reason many people have hearing loss in the left ear over time...
Bikes with loud pipes are seriously annoying.
Erik
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